Episode 116
Building Visibility for Professional Success with Tasneem Bhamji
In this episode of The Career Confidence Podcast, Nicola is joined by Tasneem Bhamti, Chief Digital Officer and founder of Office Real Talk where they talk about:
- Tas''s Career Journey and Insights
- The Importance of Asking Questions for Growth
- Defining Your Personal Brand
- Embracing Your Authentic Self in the Workplace
- Embracing Individuality in Leadership
- Understanding ADHD: Tas's Journey
Links Mentioned in this Episode:
Tas on Linked In
About Nicola Semple
I help people to build their career confidence and achieve their career goals.
You can book a free no-obligation chat about how I can support you to achieve your career goals: https://nicolasemple.com/chat
You can get my free guide "Back Yourself: Your 7 Step Plan to Build Confidence and Achieve Your Career Goals": https://nicolasemple.com/backyourself
You can buy my book The Career Confidence Toolkit: Take Control of Your Career and Fulfil Your Potential: https://nicolasemple.com/book
Connect with me on Linked In to carry on the conversation: https://linkedin.com/in/iamnicolasemple
A new episode of The Career Confidence Podcast is released every second Friday. Hit the subscribe button and you will be the first to know when a new episode goes live.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hello and welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast where we share inspiring stories, practical strategies, hints and tips so that you build your career with confidence in in this ever changing world.
Speaker B:I'm your host, Nicola Semple, a career and confidence coach and author of the Career Confidence Toolkit.
Speaker B:Today you are in for a treat.
Speaker B:I'm talking to Tasneem Bamji, who's the digital director of one of the UK's leading banks and she is also the founder of Office Real Talk.
Speaker B:Now, Office Real Talk is an organization that is dedicated to helping women, minorities and working class professionals get visible and build the careers they are capable of and that they truly deserve.
Speaker B:Talking to Taz was a breath of fresh air.
Speaker B:She's awesome.
Speaker B:She's down to earth and she shares her insights on what's needed to get ahead in the professional world.
Speaker B:But she also shares practical strategies to help you get visible and taking action.
Speaker B:Towards the end of the episode, Taz also shares her experience of living with ADHD and the impact this has had as she's built her career.
Speaker B:Have a listen and I'm sure you're going to be in awe of Taz as much as I am.
Speaker B:Taz, hello and welcome.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker B:Very lovely to have you here.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:Taz, what I would love just to get us started is if you could give us a walkthrough of your career journey.
Speaker B:How did you end up where you are just now?
Speaker A:By mistake?
Speaker A:That's probably in a nutshell, totally by accident actually.
Speaker A:I've got a degree in journalism, an editorial design and I was working in a call center while I was at university and was absolutely adamant, you know, I was going to go and be a journalist and write about foreign policy and all of that stuff, but basically was good at doing what I was doing in the call center.
Speaker A:Had a boss who basically said, why, why do you want to go and do the journalism thing?
Speaker A:You can have a full time manager's job here.
Speaker A:And I thought, do you know what?
Speaker A:I'll do that while I find a really good journalism job.
Speaker A:Journalism jobs were just kind of hard to find because they were like feature writing, you have to do the entry level stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I definitely didn't want to write for those show those magazines that come with the in news about tv and I was like, just what am I going to do?
Speaker A:What am I going to write about?
Speaker A:There was a lot of stories about gastric bands and you know, kind of weight watchers and stuff like that.
Speaker A:And it just, it just wasn't What I wanted to do.
Speaker A:So anyway, I thought let me make some money and work while I'm doing that.
Speaker A:And the difference in pay was quite vast.
Speaker A:You know, you go into an entry level kind of feature writer job in journalism at maybe 15k out a year.
Speaker A:I was getting £21,000 full time in the call center as a team leader.
Speaker A:I had to work every evening till 9pm, Monday to Thursday and then I'd work a Saturday, every Saturday, 8 till 4.
Speaker A:But I loved it.
Speaker A:You know, I've made some lifelong friends there.
Speaker A:I really enjoyed it, I was good at it.
Speaker A:And the money just kind of really came into handy for family life.
Speaker A:You know, I've been raised by a single mum.
Speaker A:Money was always tight and I was able to start contributing and helping and.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker A:You can't turn that down when you've kind of grown up from, from that kind of place of scarcity.
Speaker A:It's just too.
Speaker B: and it was, what Was it about: Speaker A:Oh dear.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:I think, yeah, to uni late as well.
Speaker A:You know, it took a couple of gap years to kind of find myself.
Speaker B:But 21k was a decent amount of money when you were starting off.
Speaker A:It was life changing.
Speaker A:I could do so much with that money, you know, I could help mum out.
Speaker A:I was able to buy myself nice things, you know, I was able to go and do things I wasn't able to do before.
Speaker A:Um, yeah, it was, it was absolutely game changing for me.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:You know, I remember just wearing the clothes I did and going.
Speaker A:I could just afford to walk around and wanting H and M.
Speaker B:And so was that, was that you waving goodbye to journalism?
Speaker B:Was that the realization that actually that wasn't the path for you?
Speaker A:Do you know what?
Speaker A:I don't think I ever waved goodbye to it.
Speaker A:I don't even know now that I have ever said I've waved goodbye to it.
Speaker A:It's not because I think I'll go and do it.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:I think that time has passed, but I'm a mass kind of.
Speaker A:You never know what life brings and the world has changed so much.
Speaker A:I can write about whatever I want to write about and put it out there in any medium I want to, should I choose to.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I've never kind of been the person that's final in anything unless I really need to be.
Speaker A:I'm just.
Speaker A:I made the choice that felt right at the time.
Speaker A:But I didn't think, you know, all these years later, I'd be here, what, 15 years later.
Speaker A:So yeah, I, I kind of stayed doing the call center thing and then worked around, you know, that bank, went and lived abroad with them in the Philippines, which was a life changing experience.
Speaker A:Like I loved it and just realized I was getting to do things I would never have dreamed of.
Speaker A:You know, to go and live there at such a young age and go and do a job there, it was amazing.
Speaker A:And then kind of outgrew that role and moved around banking ever since, but just always trying my hand at the next new thing.
Speaker A:Not in my field.
Speaker A:I like variety.
Speaker A:I like variety.
Speaker A:I need new shiny things.
Speaker A:I need to be able to solve really hard things.
Speaker A:So, you know, there was a point in banking where conduct risk was the major thing.
Speaker A:And I was like, yep, I'll go work on that.
Speaker A:Didn't really know what it was.
Speaker A:Went and did an IT program for a bit.
Speaker A:Didn't really know how to do that.
Speaker A:Did a bunch of digital transformation, didn't really know how to do that.
Speaker A:And now kind of work in the digital space, doing lots of stuff with AI as well.
Speaker A:And again, you know, learning as I go on the job.
Speaker B:But yeah, I'm really curious about the putting your hand up.
Speaker B:I'll go and do that, but I don't actually know how to do it.
Speaker A:How.
Speaker B:How did you overcome any fear that might have been there about how am I actually going to pull this off?
Speaker A:Oh my God.
Speaker A:You know what, that still happens now though, right?
Speaker A:I still walk into rooms where everybody in the room knows more about the thing than me, but I use that as my power.
Speaker A:You know, I've got a team around me that I've built where everyone is smarter than me on a number of things.
Speaker A:But what I bring is something different and unique.
Speaker A:So initially I never actually thought, will I be able to do it?
Speaker A:I just put my hand up and said, figure it out.
Speaker A:Kind of.
Speaker A:I don't believe in the fake it till you make it, but I do believe the thing scared?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you don't, you'll just never do anything.
Speaker A:So I put my hand up, I do the thing scared.
Speaker A:And then I learn and I make it my business to learn, you know, so whether that's Google, whether that's reading articles, whether it's sitting with people, whether it's asking questions and not being afraid to lean in with curiosity, not being afraid to look stupid because the only person that thinks you look stupid is you in your own head.
Speaker A:I'll just be like, hey, can I ask a question?
Speaker A:Or you know, why do we do that?
Speaker A:Where has that come from?
Speaker A:And my innate ability, I think, to be able to ask questions rather than needing to know the answer.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Is the consistent thing I've taken with me in every role where I've started off fresh.
Speaker A:I'm very, very good at connecting the dots quite quickly and I think bigger picture quite a lot.
Speaker A:But there's probably 100 million things that my team do right now.
Speaker A:I've got a huge remit.
Speaker A:I don't know a lot about.
Speaker A:Yeah, I can ask questions.
Speaker A:And I just think we are so obsessed with needing to know the answer.
Speaker A:Power lies in asking really good questions.
Speaker B:And that's such brilliant advice for people.
Speaker B:Because in fact, the podcast episode that will have gone out before your episode is all about how to stop caring so much about what people think about you 100%.
Speaker B:Because it is that leaning in with curiosity, it is being able to admit I don't know the answer to that and that's okay.
Speaker B:But you probably know the answer, so let's have a conversation about it.
Speaker B:And not being concerned about not looking professional, not.
Speaker B:Not looking or.
Speaker B:Or looking silly.
Speaker A:Do you know the people that ask the left field questions, make the left field statements, make your brain tick differently?
Speaker A:The people that I admire and respect the most, Everybody can bring in data, everybody can tell you what you think you should do.
Speaker A:And I love that.
Speaker A:I love sitting with people and talking about that.
Speaker A:But I just like to kick ideas around.
Speaker A:I would say to my team, let's not do a show and tell.
Speaker A:You don't need to show me and tell me.
Speaker A:Let's kick it around.
Speaker A:If you had no constraints, what would you do?
Speaker A:How would you solve the problem?
Speaker A:How have we really understood the problem?
Speaker A:If you were me, what would you do?
Speaker A:I love asking that question to myself, what would you do now?
Speaker A:What decision would you make?
Speaker A:When people say to me, oh, you know, we need a decision, and I always say, what do you think?
Speaker A:Would you recommend?
Speaker A:Why do you recommend it?
Speaker A:I'm really keen to know how people tick, how things work.
Speaker A:And then there's other times where I'm just like, we have to go in this direction because of X, Y and Z.
Speaker A:And I can back that.
Speaker A:But ultimately I make decisions.
Speaker A:As I learn, I go into a job knowing everything.
Speaker A:I'm in the wrong job.
Speaker B:Quite absolutely.
Speaker A:There's no growth.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And if I'm not growing, what am I doing there?
Speaker A:There's a million ways to earn money in this world.
Speaker B:I talk to clients about that a lot.
Speaker B:If you are looking at a job description, and it doesn't have that little seed in your tummy of, oh, my goodness, can I do this?
Speaker B:It's not the right job to be going for because will not have the stretch in it.
Speaker B:It just wouldn't take you where you want to go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When I.
Speaker A:When I took this job on and when my boss called me about it and it was, you know, the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:My predecessor, he'd been doing it for quite a long time, very well respected, you know, and.
Speaker A:And had had a long tenure in the role, I remember saying to my boss, me.
Speaker A:And he was like, yeah.
Speaker A:And I was like, wow.
Speaker A:And I said, okay.
Speaker A:And then there was just a long pause and I said, do you think I can do it?
Speaker A:And he went, yes, I think you can do it.
Speaker A:I said, I'm gonna have a lot to learn.
Speaker A:He went, 100.
Speaker A:But he said, I know you.
Speaker A:You'll learn.
Speaker A:And he said, I'm here to help you.
Speaker A:And here we are, you know, a year later.
Speaker A:And do I feel like I know everything?
Speaker A:100 not.
Speaker A:Do I feel like I'm learning as I go?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Am I better for it?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Am I growing every day?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Am I out my comfort zone?
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:Does that make me love it?
Speaker A:Because you've.
Speaker A:I always say to people, even.
Speaker A:Even from a leadership perspective, I always say, like, leave people better than you found them.
Speaker A:Leave things better than you found them when you've got a job.
Speaker A:I always think about my legacy.
Speaker A:Every time I get a job, I think, how do I want it to feel?
Speaker A:What do I want people to say when I.
Speaker A:When I leave this?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I make that my mission.
Speaker A:And I always want to leave things better than I was when I found them.
Speaker A:So if I don't leave my jobs feeling like I've grown personally and professionally, well, then I've just spent some time bumbling along.
Speaker A:And that's not how I want to live my life.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're definitely not bumbling along.
Speaker B:So as well as having the big job with the big remit, you also have kicked off something on the side as well.
Speaker B:Tell me more about that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Office Real talk.
Speaker A:It feels weird because it is definitely on the side.
Speaker A:Like, you know, 7:00am this morning, I'm, like, writing a post for Instagram before then at 7:30, reading a pack about strategy for, you know, the next five years or whatever.
Speaker A:But I took a career break a while ago, and, you know, I've always, always just wanted to be able to help and talk to more people.
Speaker A:And I'VE spent my life doing kind of things like career chats and, you know, being a brown woman in the corporate world.
Speaker A:There's not, there's not a lot of us.
Speaker A:So, you know, people kind of go, actually, I'd like to talk to her.
Speaker A:I'm also, you know, from Birmingham.
Speaker A:I'm very like down to earth.
Speaker A:I'd like to, you know, quite approachable and there's no heirs, no graces.
Speaker A:I don't believe in all of that.
Speaker A:So, so I do a lot of career chats and I always just thought, how can I tell more people about the things that they need to know to get on in the corporate world?
Speaker A:And I just think about all the things nobody ever taught me.
Speaker A:Like, I remember like when I had to write my first big presentation for, you know, a marketing meeting and I just really struggled.
Speaker A:My boss made me read to it 17 times and that was my first head off job.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh my God.
Speaker A:Or you know, how to chair a meeting properly, how to negotiate a pay rise.
Speaker A:You know, there's a lot of people on Instagram and stuff like that talking about those things, but just things that you, the unspoken rules.
Speaker A:I never really had anyone to help me and I just thought, look, that's what I want to do.
Speaker A:And I talked to one of my friends and I talked to my husband and they were just like, well, you're not doing anything, just do it.
Speaker A:So it's, it's hard trying to balance it on top of a full time job and then, you know, be present for the people I love and like, you know, like at home or with family etc, but it never feels like work.
Speaker A:It's just something I love.
Speaker A:I just love to talk to people about what they need to know.
Speaker A:And there's so much more I wish I could say, but really it's just a small platform, it's not big.
Speaker A:I don't consider myself as an influencer.
Speaker A:You know, I'm just sharing really raw things I want people to know about and where I can.
Speaker A:I started now to create tools and support mechanisms to help them and you know, if one person a day walks away and reads something goes, actually I can show up differently.
Speaker A:Well, that's winning.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And so you, you mentioned about you've started to develop resources.
Speaker B:What, what type of things can people find at office?
Speaker B:Real talk.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'd never really done any resources before, but more recently I'd been talking to a lot of people and just seeing how much kind of red redundancies out there at the moment you know a lot of people who are struggling in the job market, but I also know a lot of people who are using it as an opportunity to go.
Speaker A:I would never have left this job or this company if this didn't happen to me.
Speaker A:And so I, you know, talked to a number of people and followers and people who are engaging with me in DMS and they were really stuck with, you know, how to position themselves, how to come across.
Speaker A:So I offered an audit where I would like review your CV and LinkedIn within kind of 10 days with, you know, follow WhatsApp support.
Speaker A:And I did a number of audits and everybody had just the same things in common.
Speaker A:Some of these people were bloody impressive.
Speaker A:I'm looking at this and going, you are brilliant, but you are not saying that on your CV.
Speaker A:Your LinkedIn is not showing me that.
Speaker A:And they're almost pitching themselves two or three levels more junior than they actually are.
Speaker A:I'm looking at them going, I would hire you to do X, Y and Z, but based on your cv, I don't think you'd get an interview for a job.
Speaker A:And so it just kind of stuck out to me through doing these audits, which was great.
Speaker A:And you know, the feedback and the appreciation just, you know, some, all the validation you need for doing this.
Speaker A:And I offered follow up WhatsApp support.
Speaker A:There's a lot of people who I was able to help in kind of seeing themselves differently, but I obviously can't commit time to doing those kind of audits.
Speaker A:I spent, you know, two or three days on them, kind of individually at times.
Speaker A:Some were really hard and I just thought, well, how do I reach more people?
Speaker A:So I created basically a self audit and it basically gets you to look at your CV, your LinkedIn and helps you really question yourself around your personal brand.
Speaker A:So it's less about what's written down on paper, it's who am I, how do I want to show up and then how do I pitch myself in the right way?
Speaker A:And I filled that with kind of structured prompts, really good structure around kind of how to write these things.
Speaker A:Because no one really teaches you how to ever be on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:You kind of put a picture up and then put your job title up and kind of hope it'll come along.
Speaker A:So yeah, I've kind of created that so I can reach more people.
Speaker A:Because the truth is I'm not one of those influencers that's about to quit my 9 to 5 to go and do this full time.
Speaker B:That, you know, that's not the Point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know that I think that's the beauty of it, that I am still in that world.
Speaker A:I do believe corporate gives me a number of brilliant things, but I just can't help as many people as I'd like to.
Speaker A:So being able to offer self sufficient resources where people can go and help themselves is kind of what I'm trying to do.
Speaker A:So that's the first of many, I'm sure.
Speaker A:But I don't know what people need.
Speaker A:So I'm sure I'll tap into that as the weeks and months go on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you touched on there about personal branding and it's such an important thing to do.
Speaker B:If you were to share your top tips on how to build your personal brand, how to get your story out there, what would your advice be for people?
Speaker A:Yeah, so this is such a big one and I think most people think they don't have a personal brand.
Speaker A:That's where I'll start.
Speaker A:If you think you don't have one, you're wrong.
Speaker A:You do have one, you just don't know what it is.
Speaker A:Yeah, people are saying things about you all the time, right or wrong.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But perception is reality.
Speaker A:Ultimately, you know, whether people say what you want them to or not is, is beside the point.
Speaker A:So you do have a personal brand, you just don't know what it is yet.
Speaker A:But you can claim it.
Speaker A:Absolutely claim your personal brand.
Speaker A:So I think if you want to define your personal brand, you should go and find out what people are saying about you first.
Speaker A:What, you know, if you said to someone like, describe my personal brand, what three, three words would you use to describe me?
Speaker A:And people might say, oh, you're funny, you're caring, you know, no, just really get into it with them.
Speaker A:How would you describe the way I show up at work?
Speaker A:What would you say about me if you were talking about me and I was going to go for a job, ask those kind of hard questions and then understand, you know, talk to 10 different people the way from your boss to your peers to whoever you know, people who work in your team, etc.
Speaker A:And then I think you have to go and sit with yourself really long and hard and go, what do I want people to say about me?
Speaker A:But don't think about what you want them to say about you now.
Speaker A:Think about where you want to be and therefore what would need to be true about you to achieve that goal.
Speaker A:If I want to go and, I don't know, be a florist, I don't want people to say I'm great In banking, beside the point.
Speaker A:You've got to start thinking about that, then think about the things that you want people to say about you.
Speaker A:And then there's always a dose of reality.
Speaker A:Think about the things you're good at.
Speaker A:And how does what people are saying about you, what you're good at and where you want to be, correlate?
Speaker A:And if you had that Venn diagram where the bits kind of overlap, that's where your personal brand can really shine.
Speaker A:Because what you don't want, you know, if I want to be a florist, I don't want people saying, I'm a great florist when I've never done anything like that in my life.
Speaker A:People are not going to say something about you that's not true.
Speaker A:So you have to base it in evidence so people can talk about the things that you're good, but position them in a way that pictures you as ready for whatever you want next, whenever that is.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that's really important because we always talk about where we are now, and sometimes where you are now is, you know, I don't have the next job in mind.
Speaker A:I'm quite happy doing what I'm doing right now, but when I'm ready to do that, I'll start talking about myself slightly differently.
Speaker A:And I think there's a personal brand that talks about what you're good at and what you want to do next, and then there's your personality traits.
Speaker A:And people make their personal brand their personality traits, and they're two different things.
Speaker A:So my personal brand at work, and most people would say these things are true about me, I say it's always three things I'm great at and love to solve complex problems, like really big ones.
Speaker A:I like leading and influencing large groups of people, whether they work directly for me or not.
Speaker A:So it's, you know, the opportunity to work in a matrix environment.
Speaker A:And then the last thing is I like to play with technology and make sure I'm doing innovative things.
Speaker A:All three of those things are true of my job today.
Speaker A:They were true of my previous job and the job before.
Speaker A:They're common threads.
Speaker A:All that's happened is I've got better and better at those things.
Speaker A:I've leveled up the complexity of the problems, I've leveled up the amount of tech and innovation, and I've leveled up the number of people I'm influencing or leading.
Speaker A:But those three things are still going to be true.
Speaker A:They might not be true in three years.
Speaker A:I might want to have something completely different, but actually if you go and talk to people about me, they'll be like, taz is really good at solving complex problems.
Speaker A:Or, you know, Taz can get a whole bunch of people who are disagreeing on stuff to agree on stuff and kind of hurt everyone together.
Speaker A:Or, you know, she's kind of always dabbled with, you know, technology or data to solve things.
Speaker A:I'm not the one building stuff.
Speaker A:I don't want to do that.
Speaker A:That doesn't interest me.
Speaker A:I want to provide the solutions.
Speaker A:And then personality traits are different to that, aren't they?
Speaker A:People would say she's direct.
Speaker A:You either love working for her or you hate working for her.
Speaker A:Those things are true.
Speaker A:But she's really big on her people and, you know, kind of talent and stuff like that.
Speaker A:People would say that too.
Speaker A:So whatever people say about you, both things can be true.
Speaker A:And you have to sit with the bad and the good.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Everybody loves working for me.
Speaker A:I'm not for everybody, but that is true and I can own that.
Speaker A:But I don't.
Speaker A:I think a lot of people think their personal brand has to be like all great things.
Speaker A:It just has to be factual and you have to sit with the facts.
Speaker A:And that's why it's important to know what people say about you, say about yourself, and what you're actually good at, what's true.
Speaker A:Because if those things don't triangulate, you're probably saying things about yourself that nobody believes.
Speaker A:Or people are saying things about you that you don't know about yourself because you're not self aware.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And as you're seeing all of that, what's really coming through for me is about how much you own your personal brand and how much you are comfortable in your own skin just being yourself.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I tried to be like everyone else and it was horrific.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of my bosses saying to me, why are you acting weird?
Speaker A:And I was like, I'm not.
Speaker A:And he was like, you, you've started, like, showing up a bit differently.
Speaker A:And this wasn't that long ago, maybe about three years ago.
Speaker A:I said, well, I'm trying to be like, so and so one of my peers.
Speaker A:I was like, he's great.
Speaker A:You know, he's been an exec for a long time.
Speaker A:He was like, yeah, that works for him.
Speaker A:You just come across awkward.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, do you think everybody's noticed?
Speaker A:They went, no, but I know you.
Speaker A:I hired you because you're you.
Speaker A:I hired you because I needed something different.
Speaker A:I needed you.
Speaker A:If you're going to be like them.
Speaker A:I didn't hire you for that.
Speaker A:So he said, I wish you'd stop being what you think you need to be and start being yourself.
Speaker A:And that period was only like, three weeks.
Speaker A:And he knew me very well.
Speaker A:You know, he's an old boss, and I'd work for before, but it was just a reality check.
Speaker A:I needed.
Speaker A:I thought I needed to be like everyone else.
Speaker A:I thought I needed to be liked.
Speaker A:And I remember I had a boss once who said, it's more important to be respected than it is to be liked.
Speaker A:I say.
Speaker A:I say to the people that work for me all the time, being a great leader isn't just delivering nice messages.
Speaker A:It's not just about the care.
Speaker A:Care is also having the tough conversations.
Speaker A:Care is also about telling people when they're not doing a good job.
Speaker A:And I can do both.
Speaker A:And that's not for everyone.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And the point you raised there about your boss hired you because you are you.
Speaker B:And that's such an important thing for people to remember that we all come with our own unique set of personality traits, abilities, skills, and nobody can replace us all as individuals.
Speaker B:And so the more we can be ourselves and bring our whole selves into the workplace, the.
Speaker B:The more.
Speaker B:The more the world's going to benefit from all the great things that we're capable of doing.
Speaker A:On spot on.
Speaker A:Do you remember when it used to be, oh, you know, when you walk in through that door, you've got to show up different.
Speaker A:You know, you.
Speaker A:You've got a different work Persona and a different personal Persona.
Speaker A:I don't believe that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't believe that.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Look, obviously there is an element of, you know, how I might show up at work.
Speaker A:Definitely, you know, coming from the background, I do, like, code switching is a really normal thing, but I say a few things to my team all the time.
Speaker A:I say, you're one of one, I'm one of one.
Speaker A:Everybody is.
Speaker A:So are you.
Speaker A:So are we all.
Speaker A:We're one of one.
Speaker A:And that unique kind of thing that you bring, that's your magic.
Speaker A:That's your spot.
Speaker C:Don't.
Speaker A:Don't drop that down.
Speaker A:And then I also always say, and I say this to everyone.
Speaker A:I'm always myself, from what I wear to how I talk to where I show up, to how my personality is.
Speaker A:People are.
Speaker A:No one else would say that.
Speaker A:I'm like, I know.
Speaker A:Look, you've got me, though.
Speaker A:Be so comfortable being yourself that everyone around you is comfortable being themselves, too.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:My favorite thing to say.
Speaker A:And as A leader.
Speaker A:I carry that as a leader of people.
Speaker A:I carry that.
Speaker A:You know, wasn't so long ago where I sat with a guy in my team who is gay and he just said, I feel so comfortable that I can be my whole self at work.
Speaker A:And I just wanted to cry.
Speaker A:I just thought, imagine not being able to bring that to work if you're a leader.
Speaker A:Like heavy is the head that wears the crown.
Speaker A:You've got to create those spaces.
Speaker A:And so when I role model that I am myself, that I AM 1 of 1, Everybody feels like they can be themselves a little bit more.
Speaker A:The minute I start putting on this kind of stiff upper lip and start showing up like an exact.
Speaker A:Like that, everyone thinks that there's a certain way to show up.
Speaker A:So I just think that we all have to own who we are and not shrink ourselves because the minute we start doing that, we don't do our best work either.
Speaker A:It's a vicious cycle.
Speaker A:It's a vicious cycle.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And one of the things that we've talked about and you've shared already with me is that part of that whole self that you are is that you live with adhd.
Speaker B:And we hear a lot about the negatives of adhd, but it also gives people some superpowers as well.
Speaker B:Where can you see in the work environment where actually it can really help you?
Speaker A:Yeah, look, it's.
Speaker A:I used to talk about the superpower bit a lot and then this days, you know, are just completely debilitating that I just, just so hard for me.
Speaker A:But no one else really sees, you know, apart from those closest to me that I work with in, you know, like so my, my pa and etc.
Speaker A:But superpower wise, I had a boss once who said to me, who's now appear actually.
Speaker A:And he always used to say to me, your ability to connect dots at the pace that you do is like nothing I've ever seen.
Speaker A:He said it's just really fast.
Speaker A:The pace that my brain will work at to stitch things together.
Speaker A:Which is why I'm really great at strategy and transformation.
Speaker A:Role.
Speaker A:Yeah, like a really large scale.
Speaker A:I'll take something really left field over there and join it up with something else and come up with brilliant ideas.
Speaker A:I have an ability to think really big, but can get into the detail if I enjoy the topic.
Speaker A:And really, you know, I can go quite blue if I want to get into the data.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I am a very confident public speaker in the sense I will take up that space.
Speaker A:I wasn't always, but as I've learned to Own myself.
Speaker A:I can, on the spot, think of a million things.
Speaker A:My head will kind of generate ideas on tap.
Speaker A:I can get through more work than most people because of how hyper focused I can be.
Speaker A:You know, I was joking with one of my friends saying, oh, yeah, maybe one day I'll dial it down to 70.
Speaker A:And she was like, you'll still be 200 above.
Speaker A:I'm exhausted.
Speaker A:And I also, which my team hate has never forgets, I've asked you to do something.
Speaker A:I remember if we've talked about something, like, but we had that conversation.
Speaker A:We did this and we did this.
Speaker A:Or do you remember this?
Speaker A:I just don't forget.
Speaker A:A guy in my team said to me, do you have a book where you remember everything about everyone?
Speaker A:Was like, what do you mean?
Speaker A:He was like, well, you know, everybody's kids names and their dog's names and, you know, actually knows a lady in my team because I asked her how her daughter was getting on with her GCSes, and she was like, have you remembered that?
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:So what do you mean?
Speaker A:She was like, why don't even.
Speaker A:Like she works someone who works for me.
Speaker A:She's like, you've got such a big team of like, you know, three, 400 people.
Speaker A:And I'm like, huh?
Speaker A:If you told me, I'll remember it.
Speaker A:I'll know your daughter's name.
Speaker A:I'll know when her exam is.
Speaker A:I'll ask about your dog.
Speaker A:I'll ask about your partner.
Speaker A:Those things are really important and they make me different as well as a leader.
Speaker A:So, you know, kind of ability to be personable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think the other thing that it makes me is vulnerable.
Speaker A:And I don't think my ADHD made me vulnerable.
Speaker A:I've always been quite open about that.
Speaker A:But I think being able to tell everybody, I find this hard.
Speaker A:This is a tough day.
Speaker A:I'll say things in meetings like, whoa, can we just.
Speaker A:Can we not bring everything up on the screen?
Speaker A:I just need a minute.
Speaker A:I'm feeling really.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or I've got a guy in my team and he does it brilliantly all the time.
Speaker A:He will always bring up a slide and he'll be like, should we just give you a minute to read task?
Speaker A:And in 30 seconds, I'm like, yep, got it.
Speaker B:And isn't that brilliant that.
Speaker B:That we can start to normalize some of these behaviors to help everybody be able to work in the most effective way possible?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, sometimes I wish I could turn teams off because it's like, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I find it really overstimulating.
Speaker A:I find it really overwhelming.
Speaker A:Whereas I like my inbox.
Speaker A:I can flag stuff, I can touch it, you know, my PA can access it, like, all of that.
Speaker A:Everybody can't work in the way I need them to, so I have to make adjustments and so do they.
Speaker A:And I don't talk about my ADHD openly at work, beyond my team.
Speaker A:And that might sound weird where it's like, you know, that's 400 people.
Speaker A:But if you're in my team, how I work with you and how you work with me is paramount.
Speaker B:Yeah, of course.
Speaker A:I haven't gone around talking to my peers about it.
Speaker A:You know, there's a couple of them that know I haven't made a public statement my whole life.
Speaker A:You know, being a woman is visible, being brown is visible.
Speaker A:I've really owned my story about where I come from and, you know, my background around social mobility.
Speaker A:This is new to me.
Speaker A:I only got diagnosed a couple of years ago and I'm still learning what that means.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And everybody said, oh, were you relieved?
Speaker A:I was just sad.
Speaker A:I was really sad.
Speaker A:I thought I was going to be relieved.
Speaker A:I thought I was going to be like, ah, it all makes sense now.
Speaker A:But I was sad.
Speaker A:I was sad that I will have to live with this forever.
Speaker A:I was also conflicted about what would I lose if, you know, I go on medication, you know, and it was recommended that I got medication.
Speaker A:I'm still trying to figure out when I want to do that.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to figure out other ways to manage it right now for various reasons, but I think I was just sad because, you know, I remember the psychiatrist saying, I think you've had it for a really long time and because you're a high achiever, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:You know, you've probably masked it.
Speaker A:The fact that I've probably lived with this since I was six and nobody knew.
Speaker A:It wasn't so picked up in those days, was it?
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:And I couldn't make sense of why things have just felt so hard at times.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Words to explain how it was feeling in my head.
Speaker A:Just didn't know how to explain it.
Speaker A:And now there's something that's got a name like that's.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:It's sad.
Speaker A:I just find it sad.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that found comfort in it.
Speaker A:I wish I had, but I haven't.
Speaker B:That's a really honest answer.
Speaker B:And I really appreciate you giving and being as honest as you have been, because you hear a lot of the time that people say, oh, yeah, I just felt relieved because I now had a name for it, There was a label.
Speaker B:I could understand it.
Speaker B:But I totally appreciate your perspective of.
Speaker B:I've had to live with this up until now and there is no magic wand and I'm going to have to continue to live with it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I've had, I, I think being able to live with it, not knowing what it is and not knowing why things have felt so, so hard at times to then get to where I am, you know, I'm just like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:The odds were stacked against me anyway, but bloody hell.
Speaker A:And I just, you know, my, my, my memory of it and I was sitting here when I had my diagnosis.
Speaker A:Actually the psychiatrist came on and obviously because I've got adhd, she had all of these instructions around, you need your ID and all of that.
Speaker A:And I hadn't read them because I, it's a detail that I don't want to do.
Speaker A:So we had a whole five minutes where I was rummaging around trying to find id, and then I sat down in front of her, show to my id and she, she, you know, so they fill out all these reports and everything else and she just said, I just want to say congratulations.
Speaker A:I was like, okay.
Speaker A:And she was like, to get to where you have, with what you've been through and, and what we're about to talk about, she would have probably done an assessment.
Speaker A:Desktop goes into it.
Speaker A:Before she just said, you should be so proud of yourself.
Speaker A:She went, I've just met you and I'm proud of you too.
Speaker A:And I just wanted to cry.
Speaker A:And I just said to her, I said, thank you, I think, and I, I didn't know how to feel about that.
Speaker A:And then at the end of it, and when she gave my diagnosis, I just said, thank you for seeing me, because I think it's probably the first person ever that actually knows or knew what was happening in my brain and what it would have taken to get here.
Speaker A:I don't think anybody in my life knows that.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But she's an expert and she was probably able to dissect how much is happening to me as I go through my life and career.
Speaker B:And that, that feels like a very opportune time to ask the question I always ask people just to finish off, which is when you look back at 21 year old Taz, what, what advice would you give her or what would you tell her?
Speaker A:Oh, I love this question.
Speaker A:Do you know what I would do?
Speaker A:I think the first thing I'd do is I'd give her a big hug and I'd just tell her she's going to be all right, like she's safe, like it's not always going to be so hard.
Speaker A:And then the second thing I'd tell her is she can be anything that she thinks she can be because 21 year old has definitely thought she could be.
Speaker A:Some things not ended up anywhere I thought I would, but I've done pretty well.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:And you know, I wasn't expecting to be here.
Speaker A:It didn't happen by luck.
Speaker A:I've worked damn hard, but I think if you can believe in yourself, that overcomes nearly every single barrier anyone or anything will throw at you.
Speaker A:And I just, I don't know when it happened to me, but I think I got to a point where I had no choice and I wish I'd done it more deliberately earlier in my life.
Speaker B:Absolutely brilliant advice.
Speaker B:If people want to find out more about you and about Office Real Talk.
Speaker B:Where, where can they get in contact with you?
Speaker A:So yeah, you can just find me on Instagram, it's Office Real Talk.
Speaker A:And yeah, you can engage with me there.
Speaker A:Like my DMs are always open and I'm always happy to chat to people, but yeah, awesome.
Speaker B:Well, listen, thank you so much for your time, but also for your openness and your honesty.
Speaker B:It has been an absolute pleasure to spend time with you today.
Speaker A:Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker A:And thank you for making me feel comfortable enough to talk about that.
Speaker A:Actually, it's not every day you get to do that.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Take care, Taz.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Bye Bye.
Speaker B:A massive thank you to Taz for her time, but also for her openness and her honesty.
Speaker B:It truly felt a privilege to hear her share her story, particularly about her ADHD diagnosis and how she continues to come to terms with what that means for her and also for her career.
Speaker B:I've got more episodes lined up for you over the next few months, so be sure to hit subscribe on your podcast app of choice so the episodes are delivered straight to your device when they become available.
Speaker B:That's all from me for today.
Speaker B:Remember, you can buy my book, the Career Confidence Toolkit on Amazon, where it's available on paperback, Kindle and Audible formats.
Speaker B:And if you'd like to keep in contact, be sure to download my free guide Back yourself, your seven step plan to build confidence and achieve your career goals.
Speaker B:By going to nicolasemple.com backyourself as well as getting instant access to the guide, I'll send you my fortnightly newsletter with career confidence hints and tips.
Speaker B:Thanks so much for listening and I'll talk to you again very soon.
Speaker B:Bye for now.
