Episode 107
Elevating Your Workplace Impact with Carla Miller
In today's episode of The Career Confidence Podcast, I'm talking to Carla Miller, an ex CEO of various UK based charities, now a Leadership Coach and one of the UK’s most well known experts in women’s leadership.
She has also written a book ‘Closing the Influence Gap: A practical guide for women leaders who want to be heard’ is an Amazon bestseller for leadership and was named by Management Today as one of the books every leader should read in 2022.
You are in for a real treat with this conversation as Carla shares some brilliant and practical tips and tools that you can use today to elevate your influence and increase your impact in the workplace.
Links mentioned:
Closing the Influence Gap Book
About Nicola Semple
I help people to build their career confidence and achieve their career goals.
You can book a free no-obligation chat about how I can support you to achieve your career goals: https://nicolasemple.com/chat
You can get my free guide "Back Yourself: Your 7 Step Plan to Build Confidence and Achieve Your Career Goals": https://nicolasemple.com/backyourself
You can buy my book The Career Confidence Toolkit: Take Control of Your Career and Fulfil Your Potential: https://nicolasemple.com/book
Connect with me on Linked In to carry on the conversation: https://linkedin.com/in/iamnicolasemple
A new episode of The Career Confidence Podcast is released every second Friday. Hit the subscribe button and you will be the first to know when a new episode goes live.
Transcript
Foreign hello and welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast where we share inspiring stories, practical strategies, hints and tips so that you build your career with confidence in this ever changing world.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Nicholas Semple, a career and confidence coach and author of the Career Confidence Toolkit.
Speaker A:I've got a great guest to share with you today, but before I do that, I want to briefly tell you a little bit about my new program which is called you'd Next Right Step.
Speaker A:So your next right step is for you if you know you want to change something about your career but you don't know what and maybe it's been playing in your mind for a while and you keep going round in circles because you just don't know the best path forward.
Speaker A:But also at the same time, maybe due to personal circumstances or financial constraints, you're not ready to work with and to invest in a career coaching package.
Speaker A:So what I've done and I've been grappling with this for a while because I've been trying to work out the best way to support people with this and what I've come up with is a light touch program that will walk you through step by step my career clarity process.
Speaker A:But it won't be a full on coaching package.
Speaker A:What you will get is a really clear framework to follow and you'll also get some one to one support from me to help steer you in the right direction.
Speaker A:And if you work through the process, by the end of the program you're going to have a much better understanding of your strengths, your skills, your values, your career aspirations.
Speaker A:You'll get an opportunity to assess what are the changes you want to make to your career over the next 12 to 18 months and then you'll come up with a concrete action plan for your next right career step.
Speaker A:And as a result of this, you will have much more confidence in your career direction and you'll also have peace of mind that you are the one that's in control of your career rather than your career being something that's just happening to you.
Speaker A:So the way the program works is that we will have a short 30 minute call to work out what it is you want to get from the process.
Speaker A:I then talk you through your next right step framework.
Speaker A:You then get access to a workbook and some videos that will allow you to work independently through the process.
Speaker A:And then we'll have a follow up one hour coaching session where you will review everything you've learned about yourself.
Speaker A:We will clarify what you want and then I can help you create your action plan.
Speaker A:So what I have tried to do is create something that allows you to work quite independently but also gives you some one to one support so that you actually do take action and that you do move forward.
Speaker A:So if you're interested in the your next right step program, the investment is £350, so.
Speaker A:So it's at a much lower price point than a lot of one to one coaching programs.
Speaker A:And if you would like to find out more then drop me an email nicolaikolasemple.com and I can pop some more information through to you.
Speaker A:But moving on to our guest, I am absolutely delighted to welcome Carla Miller to the podcast.
Speaker A:Carla has had a really interesting career history.
Speaker A:She is the ex CEO of various UK based charities.
Speaker A:She's now a leadership coach and one of the UK's most well known experts in women's leadership.
Speaker A:She's also written a book called Closing the Influence Gap, A Practical Guide for Women Leaders who who want to be heard.
Speaker A: s every leader should read in: Speaker A:You're in for a real treat with this conversation as Carla shares some absolutely brilliant and also super practical tips and tools that that you can use today that will allow you to elevate your influence and increase your impact in the workplace.
Speaker A:Carla Miller, good morning.
Speaker B:Good morning Nicola.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me on now.
Speaker A:I'm absolutely delighted to have you here, Carla.
Speaker A:We are going to be talking about all things impact and influence today, but before we get there, I would love to hear a little bit about you and your career and how you've ended up where you are today.
Speaker B:Well, I started off in the charity sector because I always knew that I wanted to make a difference.
Speaker B:I remember being 15 and being convinced I was going to be Chief executive Oxfam one day.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:Now I look at that job and go, oh my goodness, what was I thinking?
Speaker B:No longer a life ambition.
Speaker B:But I knew that the world didn't seem fair and I wanted to somehow try and make it a little bit fairer.
Speaker B:I remember going, I went to the University of Warwick and studied politics and I remember going to the careers advisor and going I want to work in the charity sector.
Speaker B:And they said, well there are no jobs in the charity sector, it's all volunteers, let's go and do the milk round instead.
Speaker B:I declined to do the milk round and ended up in admin for a while and conference producing before eventually finding myself in fundraising in the charity sector, working for a very Large, well known charity where I learned how not to manage and lead people.
Speaker B:So that was interesting.
Speaker B:But I fell in love with fundraising and variety within it.
Speaker B:So I then went on to build a career in fundraising.
Speaker B:I moved to a charity that supported blind people for a couple of years.
Speaker B:Then I moved to Samaritans, which I loved heading up, raising money from companies and trusts and the government.
Speaker B:Then I was promoted to head of fundraising there, which was my first experience of leading and leading people that didn't necessarily want to be led by me.
Speaker B:So I learned an awful lot in that situation.
Speaker B:And from there moved on to Rainbow Trust, children's charity, which supports the families of children who are terminally ill, as from raising a marketing director.
Speaker B:So I guess I was always ambitious, but not for power, but for the ability to make more impact and create change.
Speaker B:So early on in my career I got very frustrated.
Speaker B:I could see how things needed to be improved.
Speaker B:For the first five years, I think I thought I was unmanageable and I was like, what is this work thing?
Speaker B:I do not like it.
Speaker B:I am not cut out to work.
Speaker B:But once I moved into leadership roles and instead of being frustrated, I could go and create that change and make things better, I really came into my own.
Speaker B:So I had to learn a lot.
Speaker B:I was not a natural leader, but I discovered that that was where I fitted and could use all of my different skills.
Speaker B:So, yes, I spent two and a half years at Rainbow Trust as director of fundraising and marketing, turning around a situation that was quite negative when I went in there and doubling the income and giving myself burnout in the process because, and I'm sure you hear this a lot from your clients, I just really wanted to prove myself.
Speaker B:So I worked hard.
Speaker A:And if you, if you don't mind sharing a little bit about that, what form did that burnout take?
Speaker A:How, how did you know that you got to a point of really needing to make some big changes?
Speaker B:I'm lucky that I didn't hit full on burnout where I was physically ill.
Speaker B:But, but I just was spiraling a lot and thinking I just need to get out of this situation, someone else could do this job better than me.
Speaker B:I couldn't do it for another year.
Speaker B:I'd worked so hard and fought so many battles and it was all working out nicely.
Speaker B:But I was exhausted, I think, from the first year and a half of doing that.
Speaker B:And I remember after I left the chief execration, we kept in touch for ages and she always used to say, look, we are really successful now and you built those foundations, you just didn't stay long enough to see them come to fruition.
Speaker A:And if you look back on that time and if you were to relive that period of life over again, what might you do differently?
Speaker B:I wish I'd learned some of the things I teach my clients now in my training courses.
Speaker B:So I think it wasn't other people so much driving me.
Speaker B:It was very much that internal, yeah, drive.
Speaker B:I didn't pace myself.
Speaker B:So I wish I'd seen it as a marathon, not a sprint.
Speaker B:I wish that I had started working on my perfectionism earlier and been able to say, not everything needs 10 out of 10 in terms of effort.
Speaker B:It's okay to do this thing 8 out of 10.
Speaker B:It might even be okay to do something 7 out of 10 every now and then.
Speaker B:And just not taking it so much on my own shoulders, really recognize that my team were in it with me and the chief exec was in it with me.
Speaker B:But I very much felt, you know, we'd raise money, we'd be told we needed to raise a lot more.
Speaker B:And if we didn't raise that money, we were not only making redundancies, but we were reducing the services for terminal children.
Speaker B:So there was a huge emotional.
Speaker B:I was emotionally over invested for many different reasons.
Speaker B:And I see that a lot with my clients.
Speaker B:And I had to change my way of working to not do that again, basically.
Speaker B:So for me, it was kind of boundaries really around that emotional over investment.
Speaker B:And I'm sure lots of you are listening will resonate with that as well.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And I think that point you make about it being a marathon, not a sprint, is such an important one because we cannot sustain the 10 out of 10.
Speaker A:In fact, I had a conversation with a client earlier this week and I was saying to her, you operate at 110% all the time.
Speaker A:What would it feel like to operate at 100%?
Speaker A:And she looked at me quite confused and just like, I don't operate at 110%, I operate at 200% all the time.
Speaker A:And that's, that's just not sustainable for anyone.
Speaker A:And so it is about getting those boundaries in place and really understanding how, how can I make this sustainable.
Speaker B:I totally agree.
Speaker B:In fact, it's so funny you asked her that question because I had a coach at the time, the first time I'd had a coach, and he said, what if you didn't give?
Speaker B:And I think he did say 110% all the time.
Speaker B:And we were in this restaurant in Leatherhead having lunch.
Speaker B:I Started hyperventilating at idea of not.
Speaker B:I was like, why would you not do your absolute best at everything you do?
Speaker B:It was just so alien to me what he was saying.
Speaker B:I couldn't register it.
Speaker B:And that really helped me.
Speaker B:But I think now with my clients, I'm sure you do as well going deeper as to what is really driving that, because that's what needed to shift over time.
Speaker B:And it didn't shift within that role, but I at least had that awareness.
Speaker B:And in hindsight I could look back and go, right, okay, I need to do things differently going forward.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And again, another brilliant point.
Speaker A:Quite often things don't shift immediately.
Speaker A:So the first step is getting the awareness and then it's about behaving in a different way.
Speaker A:And it can take time for these shifts to really take place.
Speaker B:It really can.
Speaker B:And for me, I shifted my way of working on a logistical way as well.
Speaker B:So at that point, first of all, I took a couple of years off.
Speaker B:Well, not off completely, but from having a full time job.
Speaker B:I sold my hat.
Speaker B:I wanted no more responsibility.
Speaker B:So, yeah, sold my house.
Speaker B:I was like, my parents thought I was absolutely mad selling my house.
Speaker B:I went and learned French in the best French school in the world on the south of France for two months.
Speaker B:Just had an amazing time.
Speaker B:But then I moved to doing interim roles where I could use my brain and go in and create the change.
Speaker B:Because I identified I was a change maker and that's why I was embracing these roles where they needed a lot of turnaround, but I needed to put some clearer boundaries around that.
Speaker B:So I would go in interim as a fundraising or marketing director, often really about creating organizational change.
Speaker B:Because a charity will say we want more money.
Speaker B:And the issue is very rarely their fundraising department.
Speaker B:It's that they're not set up as an organization to fundraise effectively.
Speaker B:So often you're working with a senior leadership team around change.
Speaker B:And that really suited me because I could go in, build relationships, make friends, because I always loved making friends at work as well.
Speaker B:Make a difference, but not emotionally over averse.
Speaker B:There was a clear boundary and I would do that part time alongside I had trained as a coach.
Speaker B:So alongside coaching and facilitation and strategy.
Speaker B:So I spent about, I don't know how many years doing that, maybe seven or eight.
Speaker B:I've lost track of time.
Speaker B:I have no idea how long I spent doing that.
Speaker B:And then at some point I needed to get a mortgage and you need a permanent job to get a mortgage.
Speaker B:The real pain especially I was single.
Speaker B:So I Was just doing it on my own.
Speaker B:And I was offered a role in recruitment by someone I knew.
Speaker B:They were like, you know, so many senior fundraisers, why don't you come and recruit them?
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, okay, that sounds like fun.
Speaker B:After a year of that, I ended up as managing director of the company, which was really interesting.
Speaker B:And all these people who had trained me in recruitment, I was then leading.
Speaker B:And so I had to develop a very different leadership style to the one where you have all the answers.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, Was really interesting.
Speaker B:Loved that.
Speaker B:So ran charity people for maybe a year and a half and reached a point where I was like, do I want to do this for the rest of my life?
Speaker B:And realized I didn't.
Speaker B:Recruitment is.
Speaker B:It's interesting, it's rewarding because you get to meet lots of people and help them find their perfect job, but it's also incredibly repetitive.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Really loved variety.
Speaker B:So at that point I left and started coaching a bit more full time.
Speaker B:And then I decided to have a child on my own.
Speaker B:I had reached my 40s and so it was now or never on that.
Speaker B:And was lucky enough that after many years of trying, that happened.
Speaker B:At which point I could no longer do the interim jobs because I'd moved out of London and it just wasn't practical.
Speaker B:So I went full on with my coaching business, which was scary at first.
Speaker B:I was looking at, do I need to claim universal credit?
Speaker B:Because I'm really.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Very much money here.
Speaker B:But I invested in that.
Speaker B:I invested in learning how to run training courses and luckily I landed on the right thing and ended up basically focusing on supporting women in their careers and women's leadership.
Speaker B: ave now been doing that since: Speaker B:Have a relatively successful business doing that.
Speaker B:A podcast and a book have helped over a thousand women so far, which has been amazing.
Speaker B:And now my company also does training on influence and confidence and leadership for people of any gender as well.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:And I love the twists and turns in your story.
Speaker A:And what I'm hearing in all of that is a huge amount of bravery and a huge capacity just to try things out and see how they go.
Speaker B:I've always had that career wise.
Speaker B:I've always been the person who goes, I'm not happy, I'm just going to jump and I will find something new.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I've always backed myself.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In that way.
Speaker B:Less so maybe in like, socially, I'm not a hugely confident person, but in a work context I know what I'm capable of and I can evidence that and I just trust that I will be okay.
Speaker B:I wish I could spread some of that to my personal life sometimes.
Speaker B:But yes, I have a strong sense of self preservation.
Speaker B:So if I'm in a work environment that is unhealthy or toxic, I just won't stay.
Speaker B:And in the past I've been lucky enough to be financially able to do that because there were jobs around and it was easy.
Speaker B:Now so many of my clients, they're trapped by their flexible working needs, by the location, by the salary, by the job market at the moment.
Speaker B:And it's really very hard for them.
Speaker B:They have to stay in environments that aren't healthy for them at all.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And in those situations, it's about how to best manage those situations.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Spend a lot of my days talking about that with clients.
Speaker B:Not all of them.
Speaker B:Some of them work in fantastic places, but not all.
Speaker A:So Impact and Influence very much your bag.
Speaker A:In fact, it's also the title of your book.
Speaker A:Tell us the full title of your book.
Speaker B:The book is called Closing the Influence A Practical Guide for Women Leaders who Want to Be Heard.
Speaker B:And then the podcast is called Influence and Impact.
Speaker B:And so is my signature course.
Speaker A:Fantastic.
Speaker A:And I'll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes so that if anybody that is listening would like to find out more, you can do that now.
Speaker A:Impact and Influence is a funny old phrase.
Speaker A:It's one that you see banded around on social media all the time, or at least I do.
Speaker A:It seems to come up in my feeds a lot and there are lots of different perspectives and lots of different takes on what Impact and Influence is all about.
Speaker A:And you and I had a brief email exchange about this.
Speaker A:I seem to be caught up in an algorithm at the moment where it's showing me, let's just call them kind of tech bro hustle dudes who are telling me what their version of impact and influence is all about.
Speaker A:And I have to say I look at it and I find it pretty unpalatable.
Speaker A:So I'd love to hear more about your interpretation of what impact and Influence really is.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Well, for me, and it probably is quite far from the tech Bros.
Speaker B:Influence isn't about tactics or strategy.
Speaker B:For me, that true influence comes from how you show up intentionally and confidently and consistently.
Speaker B:So my framework takes people through.
Speaker B:First of all, seeing yourself as a leader, so working on that self doubt because even when you've built confidence in your career, there's still that self doubt and the worry that wakes you up at 2 o'clock in the morning and that perfectionism that's driving you to work too hard and not have those boundaries.
Speaker B:Then it's about others seeing you as a leader.
Speaker B:So looking at being intentional about how you show up and how you want to be perceived by others and how you communicate in meetings.
Speaker B:And then it's about influencing upwards and sideways.
Speaker B:So my clients are generally not interested in power.
Speaker B:I remember when I first started coaching, I had a coach who said, I'll help you be a powerful woman.
Speaker B:And the word power, I was like, I'm sure.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Could you just get me a bit of influence?
Speaker A:Thanks, but no thanks.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:But my clients, they want influence to be able to make things better, just like I did, and to be able to do their jobs to the best of their ability.
Speaker B:So for them.
Speaker B:And the version of influence and impact that I talk about is about getting your voice heard.
Speaker B:It's about colleagues valuing you and your team for what you bring to the organization.
Speaker B:It's about being able to successfully navigate to get your job done and being asked for your input and advice early on in a project rather than being the person they hand the task to the project.
Speaker B:So that's what it looks like.
Speaker A:And that sounds wonderful.
Speaker A:But in practice, without sharing the entire contents of your training course, can you give some practical strategies that people can use, particularly around that influencing of others?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So a couple of my favorite easy ones.
Speaker B:The first one is around your personal brand.
Speaker B:So I often, I go through a long process, but the short process is think about how do you want to be perceived by others if you leave the room?
Speaker B:How would you want three people to.
Speaker B:How would you want people to describe you?
Speaker B:In three words, basically.
Speaker B:And I get people to think that through.
Speaker B:I get them to think of 10, and then they go down to three.
Speaker B:Three words or phrases that sum up them at their best and how they want to be seen.
Speaker B:And then what you can do is look at, well, how much am I really living that brand at the moment?
Speaker B:Like, if I was to rate myself out of 10 on each of those three, how am I scoring myself?
Speaker B:And which one could I take from a 7 to an 8?
Speaker B:What could I do in the next week or two to show up more like that?
Speaker B:And it particularly works, let's say you're going into a meeting with senior stakeholders and you want to be seen as expert or strategic.
Speaker B:Just taking a moment before you go into that meeting to remind yourself of that means that you have that filter through your communication.
Speaker B:And so I encourage people to have their personal leadership brand somewhere where they can see it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And we've gone through a long process to help them work out what does them at their best look like and really playing to their strengths rather than trying to be a crappy version of someone else.
Speaker B:And I think leadership should be about leading your way.
Speaker B:So I've had clients who've gone into meetings and really using that technique, turned around how they're perceived, and they're then having these words echo back to them, and they've probably never used those actual words in the meeting.
Speaker B:They haven't gone, I am an expert.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:People are starting to say, well, you're the expert on this.
Speaker B:And it's because they've started to own that and really prioritize that, rather than doing what we generally do, which is go into meetings and react to things all over the place, because we're stuck and busy.
Speaker A:And I love what you're saying about being intentional because we all live in a very busy world and we lead very busy lives.
Speaker A:And what can happen a lot is that people spend their day going from meeting to meeting to meeting without really thinking through what's the purpose of the meeting, for a start.
Speaker A:But also, how do I want to be perceived within this space?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I always say to people, do it at the beginning of the day.
Speaker B:If you know you've got a packed day of meetings, then think for each meeting, what do I want to achieve in this meeting?
Speaker B:And how do I want to be perceived?
Speaker B:And how do I need to show up in order to do that?
Speaker B:Instead of diving straight into your emails, which is all about other people's agenda, think about your own priorities.
Speaker B:First thing, be a cup of coffee.
Speaker B:And then you just need to look at it, glance at it before you go into that next meeting.
Speaker B:So that's one really simple thing you can do.
Speaker B:Another is to look at your communication in meetings.
Speaker B:So women in particular, and for very good reason, we tend to use a lot of qualifying statements when we're speaking up in meetings, particularly when we're saying something that we think other people might find challenging or controversial.
Speaker B:So that might sound like, I might be wrong, but.
Speaker B:Or this is probably a silly idea, or correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker B:And the reason we say that, particularly as women, because you will not hear men doing it as much at all, is because it has traditionally never been safe for women to just talk up unedited in meetings.
Speaker B:We will get judged for it in a way that our male colleagues won't by both the men and the women in the room.
Speaker B:So what we're trying to do is soften it.
Speaker B:What we're trying to do is, well, if we sort of semi attack ourselves, then you're not going to attack us.
Speaker B:You might listen to what we're going to say and you won't dislike like us, so you'll listen to what we're going to say.
Speaker B:But actually what we say with those words is it's probably not worth listening to me on this.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The opposite of what we mean.
Speaker B:And we've seen other women doing it do it.
Speaker B:We've started doing it ourselves, it can become habitual.
Speaker B:So we do it even when we're not saying something.
Speaker A:I know that I have to catch myself from asking the question, does that make sense?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And, and I know that I do it, but I still continue to do it.
Speaker A:And so it is about really being intentional and reminding myself that I don't need to ask that question.
Speaker A:Yes, it does make sense.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And I think in the workplace we want to come up with some alternatives that, yes, do soften things because we're not going to feel comfortable going from I might be wrong here to here's my really challenging point.
Speaker B:But just little things like I wonder if.
Speaker B:Or how about.
Speaker B:So we're throwing in our ideas in a way that isn't in any way aggressive but also is not diminishing the quality of what we have to say.
Speaker B:So those are just some really simple things.
Speaker B:Because it turns out when a man is modest and humble, everyone thinks it's completely charming.
Speaker B:When a woman is modest and humble, we tend to take them at their word.
Speaker B:So if someone is saying, I might be wrong here, a part of our brain is going, well, she might be wrong.
Speaker B:We do not want that happening.
Speaker B:We're contributing in meetings.
Speaker A:I'm also curious what you said about managing upwards.
Speaker A:How can we use our impact and influence skills to manage our manager managers, Manage our senior managers, our directors.
Speaker B:When it comes to communicating with senior stakeholders, I often think they speak a bit of a different language because they're looking at things from a very different perspective.
Speaker B:My number one tip on that is to flex your communication style in order to match theirs.
Speaker B:We do it for our direct reports anyway, don't we?
Speaker B:We don't manage everyone who works for us in exactly the same way because they don't need the same things.
Speaker B:We also want to do that for key stakeholders upwards.
Speaker B:If you know that someone is someone that likes a lot of data and likes you to be to the point, then you don't want to go in with no spreadsheet and Just tell a really nice story because that's your preferred way of.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, communicating.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:I encourage people to be a bit of a spy or a researcher and to gather information on those key stakeholders and their communication preferences.
Speaker B:It's just about using your observational skills and then reflecting that back.
Speaker B:But I think when you're talking to people who are a couple of levels more senior than you, the really important thing to think about is how do you couch what you're communicating in terms of what they need to achieve at their level.
Speaker B:So they're not thinking about the issues in your team that are leading to burnout, but they are thinking about maybe overall retention or efficiency.
Speaker B:And you need to speak to that.
Speaker B:You need to make it really easy for them to be able to say yes because it aligns with their priorities.
Speaker B:And we don't tend to do that when we're communicating.
Speaker B:We're very much thinking about what do I want to communicate, what do I want to say, how do I feel about this?
Speaker B:And that's not the way to make it land with senior stakeholders in particular.
Speaker A:And so really thinking about what's in it for them.
Speaker B:Yeah, big time.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And when you're talking about your line manager, there's this really great concept of partnering with your line manager.
Speaker B:So really getting them to feel like you're on the same team as them, you're here to support them, because often, again, we don't do that.
Speaker B:We think, this is what I need from my line manager, and why are they not supporting me, but are we supporting them and giving them what they need?
Speaker B:So if you can think of it as a team, a partnership, and a good partnership allows some pushback as well.
Speaker B:A good partner is not someone who just says yes to everything.
Speaker B:You say you can push back, but from that relationship you've built of, we're in this together, I know what you're trying to achieve.
Speaker B:I want to help you to do.
Speaker A:That and all of these tips and pieces of advice that you're sharing.
Speaker A:The theme that I'm hearing through all of it is about having a flexibility of style, being able to be agile.
Speaker A:And to me, there's a lot of emotional intelligence involved in that.
Speaker A:It's about reading situations and as you read the situation, figuring out what is the best course of action here.
Speaker A:I'm curious about your thoughts on how we develop that emotional intelligence.
Speaker A:How do we develop that, that agility of style?
Speaker B:I think it doesn't come naturally to many of us.
Speaker B:As a teenager, I was known as the person who Always said the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Speaker B:And so my family find it hilarious that people often come up to me in a work context and go, you're so diplomatic.
Speaker B:Not by nature.
Speaker B:No, I'm not.
Speaker B:So it takes intentional effort, actually.
Speaker A:So sorry to interrupt, but I think that's a really important point to highlight that even if it doesn't come naturally to you, is something that you can learn.
Speaker B:It's a skill.
Speaker B:Is absolutely a skill.
Speaker B:And that's why I love teaching this stuff, because it's.
Speaker B:It's unpacking all the things that I found hard for so many years.
Speaker B:And I wish someone could have just given me the book that I had created.
Speaker B:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:My career would have been so much easier about five years earlier than it was.
Speaker B:It took me a long time to work this out.
Speaker B:So you're right.
Speaker B:Influencing and emotional intelligence are really closely connected because it's all about relationships.
Speaker B:So my version of influence is not the typical one, because typically when we think about influence, we think about how do I get people to see that I'm right and they're wrong in this situation?
Speaker B:For me, it's about how do I build a collaborative relationship where instead of there being an us and them dynamic, we are problem solving this situation together, looking for both of us to have wins.
Speaker B:That's a very different way of going in.
Speaker B:But it starts with build your relationship with someone because you can't work out what's going on in their head if they are a complete stranger to you and you want to build that trust.
Speaker B:You want someone to reply to your email, to say yes to a meeting, to give you the benefit of the doubt when you're arguing with them about something.
Speaker B:So that's step one.
Speaker A:And with that building that relationship, it can often take time.
Speaker A:And so I would encourage people just to cut themselves a little bit of slack if they don't feel like they have that relationship straight away.
Speaker A:Because it is something that you need to nurture and develop over a period of time.
Speaker B:Yeah, you absolutely do.
Speaker B:And you can take small steps within any one conversation.
Speaker B:Even just not going straight into the work stuff is a really simple way of doing it.
Speaker B:But the second step of the model, and I'm not going to go through all six, but the second one is about understanding them.
Speaker B:And this is where the emotional intelligence comes in.
Speaker B:I really encourage my clients to put themselves in the shoes of the person that they're talking to.
Speaker B:And the more that the tension between the two of you has built up over time, the harder that is to do.
Speaker B:I have some clients who literally find it impossible because they've really sort of demonized this other person.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we have to, we have to coach that through.
Speaker B:But to be able to put yourself in their shoes and look at it from their perspective and recognize, I am just looking at this from my perspective.
Speaker B:There are other ways of looking at this and that really does involve emotional intelligence.
Speaker B:But that's a skill that you can practice.
Speaker B:So we quite often practice that on the course.
Speaker B:Thinking about that person you find particularly difficult and what keeps them up at night, what are they being measured on?
Speaker B:What do they think it's like working with you?
Speaker B:And even just going through that exercise, even if you find it hard, allows you to go, oh, do you know what?
Speaker B:There is more going on here than just my perspective.
Speaker B:I might not even be completely right on this.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I imagine working on your courses, being the trainer, you training people in all of this, it must feel a bit of a full circle moment because as you say, it's everything that you wish that you had known early on in your career and you are now getting to be the wise owl and impart that on other people.
Speaker A:But I'm wondering if you could go back and have a conversation with 21 year old Carla as she left that degree in politics, entered into the workplace.
Speaker A:What would you tell her?
Speaker A:What advice would you give to her?
Speaker B:I think the first thing I would say is work gets better.
Speaker B:Because I really didn't enjoy.
Speaker B:I remember sitting there, I worked for a tax software firm in my first job and I remember printing off thousands of letters and signing them with someone else's signature and going, is this what I did my degree for?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So it gets better.
Speaker B:Believe in yourself.
Speaker B:Because I didn't for a long time.
Speaker B:I had to look to other people for validation.
Speaker B:And whilst I was quite good at backing myself for new jobs and interviews, once I was in those jobs, I would then have imposter feelings and go, oh, I bet I was just really good at interview.
Speaker B:And they're going to be really good with the real version of me and I'm capable of much more than I thought I was.
Speaker B:I would never have, I was very shy as well.
Speaker B:I would never have dreamed I'd be training on confidence of all things and influence and leading and managing.
Speaker B:But I always knew I wanted to help people and this is a different version of doing that.
Speaker B:So I guess I'd say, like life, your career is really unpredictable, but keep growing and learning and trust yourself and it will all work.
Speaker B:Out.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And that whole piece about it's all about helping people.
Speaker A:Everything that you've done throughout the course of your career, the common thread is about helping people.
Speaker A:And my take on that is let's not hold on too tightly to the how.
Speaker A:Let's not hold on too tightly to the how you're going to help people.
Speaker A:Just know that that's important to you and allow that to.
Speaker A:To feed into all that you do.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
Speaker B:It's a core value, isn't it?
Speaker B:I think it's knowing what, what your values are and they can shift in what they look like, but they are core to who you are.
Speaker B:So I completely agree with that.
Speaker B:Nicola.
Speaker A:Brilliant.
Speaker A:Carla.
Speaker A:It has been wonderful chatting with you.
Speaker A:If the listeners want to find out more about you, how can they get in contact with you?
Speaker B:So you can find me on LinkedIn.
Speaker B:I'm on there far too often, hanging out.
Speaker B:Do come and follow me on LinkedIn since you're a podcast listener.
Speaker B:And look up the Influence and Impact podcast for female leaders.
Speaker B:It's currently on pause, but there are 181 episodes that you can.
Speaker A:That will keep people busy for a while.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And then my website is carlamiller.co.uk where you can find out about my Influence and Impact course.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:And I will include links to all of that in the show notes.
Speaker A:So for anyone listening, just head down there and you can link straight through to Carla.
Speaker A:But once again, thank you so much for your expertise and sharing your wisdom.
Speaker A:It has been brilliant talking to you.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:A huge thank you to Carla for being so generous with her insights and sharing some brilliant tips that we can all use to increase our influence and our impact.
Speaker A:I really loved the idea that it's not the person that shouts the loudest that makes the biggest impact.
Speaker A:I think instinctively we know this, but it can be easy to forget when we're faced with people in our team or in our organization who always seem to be the ones who shout the loudest and it feels like it's their voice that is always heard.
Speaker A:I've got more brilliant guests lined up over the next few months, so be sure to hit the subscribe button on your podcast app of choice so that new episodes are delivered straight to your device when they become available.
Speaker A:That's all from me for today.
Speaker A:Remember, you can buy my book, the Career Confidence Toolkit on Amazon, where it's available in paperback, Kindle and Audible formats.
Speaker A:And if you're interested in the youe Next right step program that I mentioned at the start of the podcast.
Speaker A:Just drop me an email nicolaikolasemple.com and I'll get back to you as quickly as possible.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for listening and I'll talk to you again very soon.
Speaker A:Bye for.
