Episode 106
From Call Centres to Global DEI Leader: The Career Evolution of Joanne Conway
In this episode of The Career Confidence Podcast, I'm talking to Joanne Conway, Global Head of Inclusion & Culture about, her non-conventional career path, her learnings along the way and her passion for social mobility and inclusion.
In particular, we talk about:
- The importance of resilience and adaptability throughout our career.
- The power of mentorship and asking for help to get to where you want to go.
- Understanding and navigating the unwritten rules of the professional world.
- How a traditional approach to education and a career is one path, but other paths exist; lived experience and passion are vital.
- Joanne's research on privilege and inclusion and the implications for businesses and individuals.
Links Mentioned In This Episode:
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hello and welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast where we share inspiring stories, practical strategies, hints and tips so that you build your career with confidence in this ever changing world.
Speaker B:I'm your host, Nicola Semple, a career and confidence coach and author of the Career Confidence Toolkit.
Speaker B:Today, I am delighted to welcome Joanne Conway to the podcast.
Speaker B:Joanne is currently the International Head of Inclusion and Culture at DLA Piper International.
Speaker B:And as if that didn't keep her busy enough, she is also pursuing a doctorate at Cranfield University, the focus of which is on privilege and inclusion, particularly in relation to race, gender and class.
Speaker B:In this conversation, Joanne shares her, let's say, non conventional career path and how each of her experiences helped her make progress and moved her on into her next role.
Speaker B:She also shares her non conventional journey through formal education and the balance and the sacrifice that is required.
Speaker B:She is such a brilliant role model and it's well worth half an hour of your time to have a listen to what she has to share.
Speaker B:Joanne Conway, welcome.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:Lovely to be here.
Speaker B:Joanne.
Speaker B:One of the things that I always get people to do is just give us a bit of a potted history, a little walkthrough, if you like, of your career and, and how it has evolved over time.
Speaker A:Yeah, happy to.
Speaker A:So I had started my career way back, well, a long time ago now, and, and I started, like many people, I think started in a call center.
Speaker A:So that was kind of my first step into the, the, I guess, kind of professional world.
Speaker A:And, and, and I didn't start that till probably in my mid-20s.
Speaker A:So before that I was very much working in, in retail, so working in shops, petrol stations, various different roles and moved into a call center by chance.
Speaker A:And actually it was GE Capital bank, which was the, the start of my career and very much learned a lot, like many people say, in call centers, which has stayed with me throughout my career.
Speaker B:Now, funnily enough, you are the second guest in the space of weeks that has talked about what they learned from a call center.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think everybody should do a stint.
Speaker B:I have done a stint as well.
Speaker B:It's a real learning ground for resilience, that's for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:And I was working in credit control, so I was ringing up people, asking them to pay their bills, which, yeah, was not, not always received well.
Speaker A:But you know what it taught me?
Speaker A:It taught me a lot about patience and, and resilience and, and the art of persuasion, actually really early on in my career.
Speaker A:So I started in, in GE and then I moved into more operations Project management roles for a couple of years.
Speaker A:So for about five years I worked in a number of organizations in different industries.
Speaker A:So one was cable and wireless which then by Vodafone and within that I was doing a lot of operations, project management.
Speaker A:So working with engineers all around the world, trying to get them in the same place at the same time, which was logistical nightmare but again taught me a lot about project management, about being able to be really planful and, and just be really respectful of, of time and working across cultures as well.
Speaker A:And then I moved into working for Symantec, which security software company and did a lot around again project management, but really around license management queries, around technical, technical queries, around licenses and working with vendors.
Speaker A:So a lot of sales and management within those organizations.
Speaker A:Before moving into EY, which is where I spent 17 years of my career.
Speaker A:So started off in lots of kind of customer care, sales, project management, operations, which was really the foundation of me getting the role in finance at EY and that was very much a all round almost office manager type role.
Speaker A:So I was raising invoices, I was booking meetings, I was organizing events, I was managing partners and all of the, the, the, the accountants, book of business.
Speaker A:So making sure that they raised their bills, that they knew what debts that they had, how when they were collecting them.
Speaker A:So that was a massive role that I had.
Speaker A:And again the key thing in there I learned a lot was around influencing upwards and having personal power.
Speaker A:So not power from the role or the rank that I had because I was really junior, but actually I had a lot of having to really influence senior leaders to one give me time which is hard to do but I was very persuasive around that and just learning about like what's in it for them, really helping them to understand that you know, spending time with me was going to be beneficial for them.
Speaker A:Got really smart about being really mindful of people's time and how to use it and being respectful around that and getting the best out of the time that I had.
Speaker A:So that, that was my finance role and I did that for nine years and you know I could talk to you all day about that.
Speaker A:But, but really I started as, as one of the most junior members in, in that finance team in the Dublin office at EY and worked my way right up to when I finished my career within the finance team.
Speaker A:I was leading all of the team that I worked in.
Speaker A:So that was a team of 50 people across all of the UK and Ireland.
Speaker A:So very much working with the heads of finance, the heads of operations to manage the team that, you know, all of what I had done, I was then managing people to do that.
Speaker A:And that was my real taste into people management and softer skills and really recognizing that that's where my sweet spot was and that's where I could really add value to the business beyond my capability around finance, management and the analytical skills that I still today and then moved into DE&I.
Speaker B:And what, what I love about that is you have all of these little building blocks and every building block has, has led you on to that next step in your career.
Speaker B:Gathering these different skills, gathering these different experiences and allowing that to propel you forward.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:During that time, did you have, was there a plan?
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:To be completely honest, nothing.
Speaker A:That's what I was going to say to you is actually that definitely not.
Speaker A:Earlier on in my career, my, my intention was to always do the best job that I could do in whatever I was doing.
Speaker A:So that was my, my mindset.
Speaker A:And I also would, I was always keen to learn.
Speaker A:That's probably why I'm doing a doctorate at the same time as working.
Speaker A:So anytime any extra projects came up, if it was outside of my role, I always put my hand up, even if I wasn't quite sure how to do it because I was just really keen to learn.
Speaker A:And, and you know, for me working in a place like ey, I couldn't believe the amount of opportunities for, you know, for.
Speaker A:Nobody in my family had experience in professional services or even had careers.
Speaker A:You know, they had, they had jobs.
Speaker A:My mom worked in various different jobs doing cleaning, working in sewing factories, working in retail.
Speaker A:My dad was a, was a laborer, working job to job on different sites.
Speaker A:So when I went into this space, I couldn't believe that I was getting paid to do the things that I did.
Speaker A:And I was really excited about everything that came up.
Speaker A:So I think that was my, that was, I guess my building block was do the best that I can and then, and then see what was next.
Speaker A:And, and I, I wish that I had a plan because I think if I knew how, how important having a plan was, I would have been able to ask for more.
Speaker A:There were lots of people that I worked with who were mentors and just coaches and, and I think so more in my capability than I saw in myself.
Speaker A:Who would ask me, what do you want?
Speaker A:How can I support?
Speaker A:What, what can I do?
Speaker A:And I was just like, didn't know.
Speaker A:So I, I just would say I don't know.
Speaker A:And you know, people, if, if you don't know what you want, how can other people know what you want?
Speaker A:So, yeah, that I think was a good.
Speaker A:A reflection from me that I'm, I've done, I do now, but I definitely didn't do that earlier in my career.
Speaker B:So you got to the end of the time in the finance team and then what was the next step from there?
Speaker B:Because I feel like this is the point that some form of plan starts emerging.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I, and I will say I did, I started to plan probably my last two years of being within the finance team.
Speaker A:So it was then I'd been probably at EY for like six years and I had started to see and learn.
Speaker A:Actually you can, you, you can actually not just have a job that pays the bills, but actually you can be controlled.
Speaker A:You can actually have some real choice over what you want to do.
Speaker A:And, and I had, I had always done work outside, so I'd done charity work with young offenders in Dublin, working with various different charities.
Speaker A:That was something that was always close to my heart.
Speaker A:But I hadn't realized that I could align that with a profession.
Speaker A:So I got a mentor, a formal mentor at EY then probably about six years into my finance career, and they were really instrumental in helping me to understand what the unwritten written rules were within the organization.
Speaker A:There were things that I, I just always played by the rule.
Speaker A:If, you know, if it was in the policy or if it was in written down, then, then I really stuck to that.
Speaker A:And I didn't realize that there were other ways of doing things that weren't necessarily breaking the rules, but there were different things that you could do or things that you could ask for, reflect that meant that you're, you got access to things or that your career was impacted in a positive way.
Speaker A:So that was really instrumental for me and, and it was the conversations that I had with her and she coached me around asking me, what do you want?
Speaker A:What do you like doing?
Speaker A:So I started to do work shadowing within the various different talent teams.
Speaker A:So that's where my plan started.
Speaker A:So I did work shadowing the learning and development team and in the HR team.
Speaker A:And then I came across the diversity, equity and inclusiveness.
Speaker A:And I realized that was where I really wanted to hone my career.
Speaker A:So I spent a couple of years doing it on the side of my desk or working in finance and then taking the firm strategy and leading on that for finance, so very much keeping it in line with what would be beneficial to the finance team, reporting to the finance leadership team and our progress.
Speaker A:And it was a win Win situation.
Speaker A:It was helping them to achieve what they wanted, but it was also giving me a more formal role and structure before.
Speaker A:So I did that for about three years before a role came up in the global DEI team, which I applied for and was successful.
Speaker A:But I will say, oh, sorry, Rom.
Speaker B:No, on you go, on you go.
Speaker A:I was just going to say that, you know, that all sounds really straightforward, but there were definitely ups and downs and there were roles that I applied for within TAL to try and move out of finance, like within learning development in the coaching team in various different places that I was unsuccessful for.
Speaker A:And that was gutting, you know, and, and, but, but I learned to take the feedback, which was always really constructive, and then work on it.
Speaker A:And that's one thing that I did consistently was learn, adapt, fail, go back again.
Speaker A:And in my mentor, you know, we're still in touch, and she still says like, I was her best and toughest mentee because I would just consistently come back and be like, I've done that.
Speaker A:Now what's next?
Speaker A:And she'd be like, okay, go and do that.
Speaker A:So I'd go, come back, done that now what's next?
Speaker B:And what was it about DEI that was pulling you in?
Speaker B:What was the draw to it?
Speaker A:So for me, I've always been really passionate about fairness and, and that stems back to my own background.
Speaker A:You know, I, I grew up predominantly in a single parent.
Speaker A:I had free school meals growing up and, and grew up in deprived areas where, you know, we didn't have access to things.
Speaker A:So I saw that firsthand for me, for my friends, for my family and how we were treated differently.
Speaker A:So I've always had that innate sense of doing the right thing and, and, and knowing that there is so much talent that is missed when you make assumptions about things.
Speaker A:So that piece of it I was really interested in and, and the whole piece around consistently learning, it never stays the same.
Speaker A:And, you know, we know now in this industry, you can't just have this job or be in this role and show up every day and continue as it was yesterday because it changes from, you know, from, in, from your own organization, from the people.
Speaker A:You have to be led by your people, what they're feeling, what they're impacted by, which is impacted by the external macro environment.
Speaker A:So I'm constantly reading, you know, looking at legislation, listening to podcasts.
Speaker A:And so I loved that element of, of just constant change, but also being able to make an impact, but being really aligned to business so I could bring my finance skills, my analytical skills into something with real purpose.
Speaker B:And again, it's back to those building blocks.
Speaker B:It's using everything that's come before to create the career that you've got now.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And you don't realize it at the time that they're.
Speaker A:And I say that this to people now that you know the job that you're in today, whatever it is that you're doing, like, just do your absolute best, do the best that you can, take the most from it because you don't even realize how much that will impact you or when you might need it in the future.
Speaker A:But it is part of that building blocks of where you're, where you're getting to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's only when you get to a position where you've had a reasonable amount of time and experience in your career that you can go back and join those dots and we don't do that enough and just see where you've come from.
Speaker B:Now I know that you're no longer with ey.
Speaker B:Tell me more about your current role.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I'm international Head of Inclusion and Culture at DLA Piper, which is a global law firm.
Speaker A:And in my role I've got responsibility for everything across Europe, across Asia and across Australia.
Speaker A:And really my work is everything from, you know, writing paid up reports through to working really closely with our senior leaders to set our strategic focus, working with our people, networks, working on programmatic change and culture, working with all of our teams like recruitment, hr, resourcing, property and workplace to make sure that everything that we do, you know, it has got that lens of equity throughout and that we have those equity guardrails in place that, that make sure that the experiences are equitable for, for all of our people.
Speaker A:So that's, it's fantastic to be able to work on that international agreement and work with colleagues all around the world.
Speaker A:And yeah, it's, it's, it's always changing.
Speaker A:And again, I'm always learning, which is.
Speaker B:Brilliant and it's, it's a big, big role.
Speaker B:But you have decided on top of that that you're also working towards a doctorate?
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Am I always learning?
Speaker A:So I did.
Speaker A:So my, my education background is, is, is interesting and I think it's, it's why I'm always so passionate about it.
Speaker A:So I Left school at 17, I didn't do my A levels.
Speaker A:I left school in the UK.
Speaker A:I left school after my GCSEs.
Speaker A:I had grown up in Dublin till I was 14 and then moved to London when I was 14 and that's a massive change.
Speaker A:And anybody, if you're in the UK and have done those exams, you know that you've been working up towards them.
Speaker A:So it was, it was, I did, I did my best and I got enough to get into college and I did go to college for about six months, but then circumstances at home just weren't great, to be completely honest.
Speaker A:And my priority was not about what career I could have, but very much about how can I make enough money to just get out and get on my own and fend for myself, which is, which is what I did.
Speaker A:So I went into, straight into, into work and after a couple of years realized that I really wanted to do something around education.
Speaker A:So I did a degree in psychology with the Open University, which took me probably about six years because I was in my 20s.
Speaker A:So I was also wanting to go out a lot and manage all of those competing priorities and, and then I left it for a little bit.
Speaker A:And then when I moved into the DNI space, I wanted to have a formal qualifications to back that up.
Speaker A:So I did a HR.
Speaker A: HR management development in: Speaker A:And then I was working a lot in my job with academics because we were bringing people in to talk about research and different reports and I was always reading their papers and, and my boss at the time said to me, you know, I'm pretty sure you've got a doctorate in you.
Speaker A:You're reading everything anyway, why you should, you should really think about doing it.
Speaker A:Which I did.
Speaker A:So that was four years ago.
Speaker A:I'm in my final year.
Speaker A:So my, my doctorate is on privilege and inclusion in relation to race gen class.
Speaker A:So very relevant to my day to day work, which is really helpful.
Speaker A:And yeah, it's, it's been, it's been incredibly tough, but also incredibly rewarding.
Speaker A:And I've, and I've achieved things that were beyond what I would imagine that I would achieve.
Speaker A:Every year it gets harder and you think, I can't possibly do this, I don't know how to do it.
Speaker A:But, you know, I do it and you put the work in and yeah, I'm nearly finished.
Speaker B:And what, what I think is so fantastic about that experience that you're sharing, it is deeply ingrained in us in the UK that you go to school, you go to college, you go to university, you follow this very, very traditional pathway through education and then you get a job.
Speaker B:And actually what I, what I love hearing is the experience that you've had, how it has Brought you back to education in a way that you're really motivated by it and you really want to do it rather than it being.
Speaker B:This is the path that has been set out for me.
Speaker B:But I also imagine what comes with adding that level of formal education onto a full time role is a huge amount of, huge amount of work, potentially a huge amount of stress.
Speaker B:How did you manage the juggle of it all?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean it's been, it has been, it has been tough and you know, I, I'm, I plan a lot and I think that's been really helpful that being able to, you know, talk to my.
Speaker A:I've got teenagers, I've got a 16 year old and a 13 year old and you know, with them and my husband of saying, you know, during the week I'm, I, I don't study, I'm available, I work.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it is a stressful job.
Speaker A:So when I finish work I'm, I'm here for the family and whatever we're doing or need to do.
Speaker A:But every, every Saturday probably for the last four years, with the odd exception, I go to our local library.
Speaker A:So I go, I get there when the doors open at half nine and I stay till they close at four.
Speaker A:So it's about sacrifices and, and choice.
Speaker A:So you know, and then when I have deadlines, I just have to get up and I might be studying from 5 in the morning until I start work.
Speaker A:I might be studying until midnight, but that's only when those particular deadlines in peaks.
Speaker A:But for me now I've got my plan of what's between now and when I finish in October, what's due, what I'm going to deliver, when I'm going to deliver it by and just have that with my supervisors from Cranfield University and make sure that we're all aligned so that I can keep on track and just be willing to, to know that not everything goes to plan as well.
Speaker A:So sometimes, you know, sometimes I need to do more at home if there's stuff going on.
Speaker A:My son's doing his GCSE so you just have to balance out.
Speaker A:And then sometimes if I've got a deadline, that's where I need to put my priority.
Speaker A:Sometimes if we've got a big project at work that needs extra hours, that's where I need to put my priority.
Speaker A:So it's time management and also just making sure I have some time for myself to unwind.
Speaker B:And I love that whole thing about just being flexible with it.
Speaker B:The, the plan, the plan is there but the plan is the guideline.
Speaker B:And then like life happens and, and has to be accommodated for.
Speaker A:Yeah, you need to plan for the unplanned.
Speaker A:That's what I've literally got in mind.
Speaker A:Because you just, you just don't know deal what life is going to throw at you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now, I appreciate that you are still working on that final piece that you, you're going to submit.
Speaker B:Is there anything that you're able to share about your findings so far?
Speaker B:Because it's such an interesting topic to delve into.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that I certainly see particularly, you know, talking about privilege can be a, an emotive word.
Speaker A:And I think really what I have found is that and, and the research tells us, and what I've been.
Speaker A:My approach is that, you know, all of us have privilege and lack privilege, various different stages of their lives.
Speaker A:And, and when we hold privilege, it doesn't mean that we haven't lacked privilege.
Speaker A:And I think that's sometimes where the, the struggle comes from.
Speaker A:And even myself personally, as somebody who absolutely had struggles and was discriminated against because of my background growing up, I hold a lot of privilege right now by who I am, where I work, the color of my skin.
Speaker A:But that doesn't take away from the experience that I had when I was younger and the, the barriers that I faced and in some ways still face.
Speaker A:So for me, my work is very much about how can we really talk about this where we're not dividing peoples.
Speaker A:This isn't about calling people out for what you've got and what you haven't got.
Speaker A:Actually, it's about recognizing where those gaps might be and how we can just level the playing field so that people and everybody has that equitable opportunity.
Speaker A:So that's, you know, one thing.
Speaker A:And then the other thing is a couple of things in terms of some of the things, particularly if I talk about class, because that's what we've been talking about already and certainly resonates with me personally is the.
Speaker A:One of the key things I found that come out particularly around career trajectory is around those unwritten rules which I talked about earlier on, which I certainly felt impacted my career.
Speaker A:So we don't know what we don't know.
Speaker A:So often, you know, if you haven't had experiences at home through your network, and that might be your network through family, friends, if you don't have access to, if you've never worked in the industry that you're moving into, and, and those kind of elite professions that we see like Accountancies, doctors, lawyers, predominantly people that go into those careers, their parents or somebody in their family has been in those careers and that.
Speaker A:And that's because they talk about it, they know it's available.
Speaker A:I didn't even know what an accountant was when I joined ey.
Speaker A:That's the truth.
Speaker A:I just didn't.
Speaker A:So for me, one of the key things in my research is about how can we, how can we make those unwritten rules available to everybody?
Speaker A:Because it, you know, it is about class, but it's about many different things and not everybody knows it.
Speaker A:So it's not about giving anybody a leg up, it's about just saying, well, how can we just make sure everybody has access to the same understanding?
Speaker A:And then they can.
Speaker A:They're starting from at least a similar position that they can then move forward with.
Speaker A:So certainly that piece around the.
Speaker A:Knowing the rules of the game, knowing there is a game and how to play it, and then the other piece is around, you know, it's not enough to have technical skills, of course, technical capability and skills is important, but the higher up you go, it's not just about what you know, it's about who you know and how you.
Speaker A:Who you can learn from and how you can broaden your network.
Speaker A:So that's something that I'll.
Speaker A:I'll be sharing as part of my research.
Speaker A:Research findings and contributing to that from an academic, but also solving a complex business problem as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It made me smile when you said about, I didn't even know what an accountant was or that accountants even existed.
Speaker B:No, no, because.
Speaker B:Reminded me of a story that I tell quite often and people just can't believe it.
Speaker B:So I grew up in the west coast of Scotland and when you got to.
Speaker B:So we did hires rather than A levels.
Speaker B:And when, when you got to the end of your hires, you were applying for university.
Speaker B:And my careers advisor said to me, well, you're quite bright, so you'll go to Glasgow University.
Speaker B:So the choice was you either go to Glasgow or you go to Strathclyde.
Speaker B:Now, I ended up going to Strathclyde through choice because that's what I wanted to do.
Speaker B:When I got to university and there were people there from all over the country, I was absolutely amazed because I was like, I didn't realize that was a possibility.
Speaker B:I had only been presented with these two choices.
Speaker B:You go to Glasgow or you go to Strathclyde.
Speaker B:And I'm like, I didn't even know that I could have gone anywhere in a different town.
Speaker B:And when I Tell people that now they really can't believe it.
Speaker B:But there's a very strong culture even today of staying at home to go to university in the west coast of Scotland.
Speaker B:And so your frame of reference is what you're told at school, like your parents.
Speaker B:But my parents hadn't gone to university so they didn't know what the options were.
Speaker B:And you just, you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And it's just about choice, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And thinking about it now, I don't think 17 year old me would have gone away to university.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Be nice to know though.
Speaker B:It would have been nice to know that that was an option.
Speaker B:So just from your perspective, from all of your findings and the research that you've done, what could anyone listening to this, who's thinking, maybe I don't know what these unwritten rules are.
Speaker B:What, what could they start to do to, to explore that for themselves?
Speaker A:It's a really good question.
Speaker A:I think that the first thing I would say is, is ask like to try and get, either get a mentor.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying like, because I know people are not going to go around to people and say can you tell me what the unwritten rules are?
Speaker A:But actually if you know somebody well enough you could because, because they do exist.
Speaker A:And, and I think the other thing is that sometimes people just assume everybody knows them.
Speaker A:If you know what the, if you know what the unwritten rules are, you don't know that they are rules, you just know.
Speaker A:So you're not gonna, so you're not gonna go around and go, I better make sure everybody on my team knows that there's these unwritten rules because you don't even know that they've unwritten.
Speaker A:You probably think everybody knows them because we all see the world from our own worldview.
Speaker A:So I think my, my, the biggest life changing thing for me was getting a mentor.
Speaker A:So I would say encourage people to ask someone if you, if you work with somebody, you know, maybe they're just even one level above you or they've got more experience than you and you think you can learn from them, just ask them.
Speaker A:You know, you can ask.
Speaker A:If you don't want to say, have you got time to take on a mentor?
Speaker A:You could just say, would you mind, can we grab a coffee?
Speaker A:Can we have a virtual chat?
Speaker A:I'd love to.
Speaker A:Just get your thoughts on your career.
Speaker A:How did you, how did you navigate?
Speaker A:Is there anything you could tell me that you wish you knew?
Speaker A:Is there Anything that you could tell me that you think will help me in terms of my career or what I need to know to be successful here.
Speaker A:And don't assume that people will be too busy for you.
Speaker A:People love to share and pass on knowledge and, and asking somebody for, you know, don't ask them for an hour, you can ask them for 15 minutes and if the conversation goes well, you can ask them for more time and they'll be more willing.
Speaker A:Most people will give you 15 minutes and, and that's the same on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:I've had many people message me and, you know, I can't get to everybody as much as I would love to, but I have had lots of conversations with people for 10, 15 minutes where they've just said, can I have a chat?
Speaker A:I'm interested in this career or I've seen your experience in this, can you share me 10 minutes?
Speaker A:So just ask you, you will, you'll be surprised how much people really just want to be able to, to, to speak to you.
Speaker A:And on the flip side of that offer as well.
Speaker A:So if you, if you see someone in your team, you can always say, would it be helpful if I share some experience or would you like to hear some of mine experience?
Speaker A:And you can take what you want from that.
Speaker A:People don't have to take the advice it's given, but I always think if you share it, you can say you can take some, none or all of it.
Speaker B:And, and it really is about just asking because as you say, people are generally more than willing to share their time.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I did that a lot.
Speaker B:So if we reflect Back to the 21 year old Joanne that entered into her career, what would you tell her about how your career has evolved?
Speaker A:Yeah, so what would I tell her about like what the future is or what advice would I give her?
Speaker A:What's the.
Speaker B:Well, what advice would you give her?
Speaker B:What advice would you give?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think to definitely thinking back at 21 year old me, I didn't, I didn't even know what a career was.
Speaker A:I think I was probably working in a petrol station at that time.
Speaker A:And so I had a job, all my friends had jobs, my family had jobs.
Speaker A:So I think I would say you can have more than this, you are capable of more than this and you will do more than this and just believe in yourself.
Speaker A:And I think that the other thing I would say is, is really just to, as you move forward, make sure that you take your space up because you're worth it and make sure that you match your confidence to Your capability, because confidence is important and that's something that I've seen through the research that I've been doing, is that quite often people, particularly those from lower socioeconomic, sorry, lower socio economic backgrounds, their confidence doesn't match their capability.
Speaker A:Their capabilities far outweighs, you know, when they show up into a room.
Speaker A:And that was certainly the case for me earlier on in my career, is that I didn't have the confidence to match what I was capable of.
Speaker A:And actually a senior leader, a sponsor said to me, you need to up your confidence because your capability is beyond what you show up as.
Speaker A:And people see that.
Speaker A:And I noticed a different, when I do that, when I walk into a room now, I know what I bring and I'm confident in that and I know I don't and I'm open to that.
Speaker A:So I think that's what I would say.
Speaker A:I would just say to her, like, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna try lots of things, you're gonna fail, you're gonna learn, you're gonna make mistakes, but you're gonna grow and just keep bringing people with you because that is what is gonna keep your heart full when, when times are tough and you're, you're finding it a hard job.
Speaker A:You always surround yourself with people and bring people with you on the journey.
Speaker A:So don't that.
Speaker B:Brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker B:Joanne, where can people find out more about you, particularly if they want to find out more about your research when that is published?
Speaker A:Yeah, so I mainly on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:So I post quite a bit on LinkedIn and I share my research and, and certainly as I start to get to the point of, of, of finalizing it, I'll be sharing more and more there.
Speaker A:So LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me.
Speaker B:Brilliant.
Speaker B:And what I'll do is include a link to your LinkedIn in the show notes so that if anybody wants to connect with Joanne, they can do so there.
Speaker B:So just a massive thank you, thank you for your openness, thank you for your honesty and thank you for sharing all that you have about your career journey.
Speaker A:No, thank you.
Speaker A:It's always good to speak to you and yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker B:A huge thank you to Joanne.
Speaker B:What I particularly loved about that conversation is Joanne's just a shining example of somebody who hasn't followed a conventional career path, hasn't followed a conventional educational path, but has still created a truly incredible career for herself.
Speaker B:She clearly demonstrates that there is no one set way of building your career.
Speaker B:And I also love that her own background and upbringing has motivated her to pursue her research in social mobility.
Speaker B:I'm really looking forward to her research findings being published later this year, and as she says, if you want to find out more about that, follow her on LinkedIn because she shares lots of great stuff there.
Speaker B:I've got more brilliant guests lined up for you over the next few months, so be sure to hit subscribe on your podcast app of CH and so that the episodes are delivered straight to your device when they become available.
Speaker B:That's all from me for today.
Speaker B:Remember, you can buy my book, the Career Confidence Toolkit on Amazon, where it's available in paperback, Kindle and Audible formats.
Speaker B:And if you'd like to keep in contact, be sure to download my free guide Back Yourself, your seven step plan to build confidence and achieve your career goals by going to Nicholas Semple.com backyourself as well as getting instant access to the guide, I will send you my fortnightly newsletter with Career Confidence hints and tips.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for listening and I'll talk to you again very soon.
Speaker B:Bye for now.
