Episode 111
Personal Branding and Authenticity: Lessons from Maria Hawley
In this episode of The Career Confidence Podcast, I'm talking to Maria Hawley, Director of People at Fisher German. Maria shares her unconventional path into the world of HR, the twists and turns along her career journey and the events and people that have influenced her along the way.
Key Points:
- Your career may take unexpected twists and turns and is a constant evolution.
- The need to adapt and to have courage to pivot one's career path when necessary.
- The vital role of effective feedback in career development and the long-lasting impact it can have on individuals.
- The power of personal branding and authenticity in professional settings.
- The importance of listening to understand others, fostering a culture of empathy and connection in the workplace.
- How embracing a growth mindset can lead to unforeseen opportunities.
- Being resilient and open to change are essential skills in today's workplace.
Links Mentioned:
Maria Hawley on Linked In
About Nicola Semple
I help people to build their career confidence and achieve their career goals.
You can book a free no-obligation chat about how I can support you to achieve your career goals: https://nicolasemple.com/chat
You can get my free guide "Back Yourself: Your 7 Step Plan to Build Confidence and Achieve Your Career Goals": https://nicolasemple.com/backyourself
You can buy my book The Career Confidence Toolkit: Take Control of Your Career and Fulfil Your Potential: https://nicolasemple.com/book
Connect with me on Linked In to carry on the conversation: https://linkedin.com/in/iamnicolasemple
A new episode of The Career Confidence Podcast is released every second Friday. Hit the subscribe button and you will be the first to know when a new episode goes live.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hello, and welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast, where we share inspiring stories, practical strategies, hints and tips so that you build your career with confidence in this ever changing world.
Speaker B:I'm your host, Nicholas Semple, a career and confidence coach and author of the Career Confidence Toolkit.
Speaker B:And today I'm talking to Maria Howley, who's the director of People at Fischer German.
Speaker B:Before we started recording, I said to Maria, she's probably the most famous grandma on LinkedIn because she's always sharing pictures and little snippets of her relationship with her daughter and her grandson, who both live in Australia.
Speaker B:Maria is a brilliant example of how personal branding is done and done really well and done authentically.
Speaker B:She just shows up and shares who she is, she shares what's going on in her world and, and she also gives us the benefit of her expertise and her professional insights.
Speaker B:In this conversation, Maria shares all that she's learned over the last four decades of her career and also why it often pays to listen to the advice that our mums give us.
Speaker B:Maria.
Speaker B:Holly, hello.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:How are you?
Speaker B:I'm very well, thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation today.
Speaker B:As I was saying to you before we started recording, we've never met, but I feel like I know you only because of all the content that I've read on LinkedIn and the conversations we've had in the comments on LinkedIn.
Speaker B:So, first of all, it's really lovely to get to spend some time with you today.
Speaker A:You too.
Speaker A:I'm really pleased to be able to meet you in person, Nicola.
Speaker B:So you are currently the director of People at Fisher German, but it's been a long and winding road getting there.
Speaker B:Could you share a little bit about your career journey and how you got to where you are just now?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Please bear in mind that, you know, I'm at the latter stages, I would sort of say heading towards the end of my sort of career.
Speaker A:So this, this was a long time ago.
Speaker A:I went to college to do my A levels and my mum at the time said that, well, you're always going to need, they're always going to need secretarial skills, so I want you to do typing kind of with your A level so you can see where her aspirations for me were.
Speaker A:And I went off and I did my work experience at British Rail typing pool.
Speaker A:And if ever there was a place to lose your soul, there it was and your will to live.
Speaker A:So I decided that office work was definitely not for me and I went off to be a nurse and entered the nursing profession.
Speaker A:And while I think I am empathetic and caring and supportive, I definitely was not destined to be a nurse.
Speaker A:And I think anybody who knows me would probably say the same thing.
Speaker A:But it took me ages to realise and admit to myself that that was the case.
Speaker A:I couldn't bear to kind of admit it to my family or my.
Speaker A:And so plowed on through some very unhappy days before eventually kind of deciding enough is enough, this isn't worth putting yourself through.
Speaker B:And that, that takes bravery because as you say, when you have set yourself down a path that you think is the right one and you've told everyone that that's what you're doing, you have to then go back and say, actually, you know what, this isn't the right thing for me.
Speaker B:Yes, but it's perfectly okay to do that.
Speaker A:It's so okay to do it.
Speaker A:Particularly nowadays, you know, I think people will have, may have many careers during their kind of sort of lifetime, or they may have won and changed jobs a number of times or you may change careers.
Speaker A:And for me it was kind of making that decision and holding my hands up and going, you know, I am, you know, I am not a benefit to the nursing profession and it's not doing me any good either.
Speaker A:And so because, because I did have my typing skills, God bless her, I then thought, well, I'm not quite sure what I want to do.
Speaker A:And I'd also moved across the country from the Midlands to the south, so I thought, well, I'll just go and work in an office, heaven forbid, you know, against my kind of initial thoughts.
Speaker A:And I went and worked in a, in a law firm and I loved it and I really enjoyed it and I probably did a number of secretarial, administrative office managed sort of type roles before then, thinking, you know what, the thing I've really got my eye on, which was at that time personnel.
Speaker A:But it was quite hard to get into.
Speaker A:And how did I kind of sort of, you know, make that sort of transition?
Speaker A:And I was fortunate enough that I was able to do a fixed term cover.
Speaker A:So I actually left a permanent job to do a fixed term cover.
Speaker A:That would be a stepping stone.
Speaker A:And even if I didn't get it on a full time basis, I knew that I was gonna, I was going to get some really good experience.
Speaker A:So I did a year in that sort of role again working for sort of a law firm.
Speaker A:Loved it.
Speaker A:The person who went on maternity leave decided not to come back, so they offered me the permanent position and I have to Say it just flew from there, you know, they sponsored my cipd.
Speaker A:I got fantastic experiences in a range of different roles doing different things and you know, I work.
Speaker A:So I was based in Reading, Reading office, but I also worked in their London office and then I relocated back into the Midlands but worked in their Sheffield office for two years and that was, it was just the most fantastic experience working with a range of great individuals who were all really kind of sort of committed and dedicated and had a good view in terms of sort of HR.
Speaker A:And I'm, you know, I'm still friends, you know, 30 years on I'm still friends with, you know, those people and you know, we have girls weekends away and meet up for dinner and drinks etc, so that was sort of brilliant.
Speaker A:But having been in Sheffield for two years, I then decided, you know, what I needed.
Speaker A:I wanted the next step.
Speaker A:I wanted the next step and I was, you know, I was really fortunate.
Speaker A:I went for an interview with the Housing association for role at the same level but the, the business was bigger and I thought, well, maybe that would, you know, kind of sort of give me some more scope.
Speaker A:And I didn't get the job.
Speaker A:But the, the person who had interviewed me wrote me the most fantastic letter and we talk about sort of giving feedback after interviews saying basically sort of saying this is a two level, low level, you know, sort of, you're just transitioning sort of across, you need to aim higher, you need to kind of look for roles that are going to kind of take your progression kind of higher.
Speaker A:And I suppose with that I then applied for the role at the Gang Masters Licensing Authority which was at that point a HR manager role.
Speaker A:But I got promoted to head of HR and it was a, it was a startup, so it was a new quango by the government.
Speaker A:I got to be involved in everything.
Speaker A:So starting it sort of establishing sort of the HR function but also being involved in kind of sort of operational decisions.
Speaker A:I was on the management board.
Speaker A:I then got, as I was promoted, I got onto the leadership team and it was a fantastic experience and it was, and it was great.
Speaker A:And I hadn't worked with trade unions before and it just gave me the math most brilliant extended experience.
Speaker A:But after six and a half years, governments had changed.
Speaker A:We were into the bonfire of the quangos and there was to take voluntary redundancy and you know, and I take my hat off to everybody who works in the public sector but you know, I really wanted to return to the private sector so I put in for voluntary redundancy.
Speaker A:I got it and with that I stepped into what I thought was going to be my transitioning, you know, sort of two year role while I looked for something that I thought would be kind of more aligned with what I wanted to do, which is the role that I'm doing now.
Speaker A:And I've been here 13 years and the reason that I've stayed is because it's never been a caretaker role.
Speaker A:You know, when I started we had eight officers, there was 200 people, we're at 850 people now.
Speaker A:We have 25 officers.
Speaker A:We had.
Speaker A:There have been fantastic opportunities to develop, grow, do things.
Speaker A: You know, I was promoted in: Speaker A:You know, I've gone, I've grown my own team from me and one other to me and 15 split into recruitment and learning and development and employee experience.
Speaker A:We've, as I say, we've grown sort of along the way like you know, any other kind of HR person.
Speaker A:Obviously taking the business classes from COVID dealing with various kind of sort of other sort of ongoing sort of issues along the way.
Speaker A:You know, culture changes, changing leadership, moving on to the leadership sort of team.
Speaker A:And it's just been fabulous.
Speaker A:I can't sort of say anything else, but I do think in HR it is about finding the right environment and the environment where you can demonstrate the value that HR can bring.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:As you shared all that, I've noted down a few things, a few reflections.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:The first is how absolutely brilliant that you got that feedback letter.
Speaker B:I mean just, it just wouldn't happen today or it would be very rare for it to happen today.
Speaker A:Exactly that.
Speaker A:And it was, you can tell how long ago it was an actual letter, you know, so it wasn't a kind of generic email or even an email saying, you know, kind of this is some sort of feedback.
Speaker A:It was an actual letter, took up a full side of kind of a four.
Speaker A:And it actually made my.
Speaker A:I really actually thought I wanted the job and it made a.
Speaker A:It softened the rejection piece of it, but also it gave me something to work with.
Speaker A:You know, there's somebody who has seen something in me during the course of that sort of interview that said, actually you need to be looking at the next level up.
Speaker B:And I guess what I would like to highlight for anyone listening is if you're ever in that kind of situation, if you're interviewing someone or if you do spot potential somewhere, the power of just taking some time to share that with them because you really don't know the impact that that could have even years later, you're talking about how that was such a pivotal piece of your career journey.
Speaker B:And we all, each and every day, in the interactions we have with other people, have the opportunity to support others in that way, in a way that might only take a few minutes out of our day, but it can make such a massive difference.
Speaker A:And really I'm positive, a really positive kind of sort of impact.
Speaker A:I mean, certainly I've interviewed people and I can think of one instance now where I've sort of said, you know what, you're not right for our team, but we've got a vacancy in this business and I just think you'll be spot on for, you know, I know you might be sort of a bit disappointed, but why not go and have a chat with them?
Speaker A:Because I actually think it suits you far better and you'll be far happier in that kind of role.
Speaker A:And they're in it now, you know, and it is, you know, it is that let's take the time to sort of spot the potential in this world, which is really fast paced now.
Speaker A:Everything is instant.
Speaker A:It's going to be now, it's going to be immediate.
Speaker A:I've got.
Speaker A:It's fast food or fast communications or whatever it might be, you know, let's just slightly slow it down a bit and take the moment to actually see people, see people kind of where they are.
Speaker A:Because those sort of snippets of feedback, those taking a moment's time will absolutely pay dividends both for the individual and you and the organization.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The other thing that was coming into my mind as you were talking was about the value of experimentation and trying out different things.
Speaker B:So, you know, you tried out the nursing, you knew that wasn't for you.
Speaker B:You used your secretarial skills, God bless mum, because she knew what she was talking about and use that as a stepping stone into your personnel as it was now HR career.
Speaker B:And with that opportunities can come from the places that you don't always expect them to come from.
Speaker A:Absolutely, I completely agree with that.
Speaker A:I think that sometimes, you know, particularly sort of coming out of school and sort of exam time, you know, we're so focused, I think currently on exam results and schools are focused on staff and we put so much pressure on our children to be absolutely at the top of their sort of game and, you know, it's almost like life and death if you don't get them results that you want.
Speaker A:And that's not true, obviously you want your children to achieve the best that they can first time around.
Speaker A:You know, we don't want to make life harder than it has to be, but it's not the end of the world and there's so much out there available.
Speaker A:I mean, I, you know, I did a fair amount of home study, but I was motivated and I really wanted it.
Speaker A:I found something that I enjoyed.
Speaker A:I found something that, you know, drove me and I was kind of sort of motivated.
Speaker A:Don't get me wrong, there were times when I was entirely unmotivated, but I needed to do it.
Speaker A:But, you know, I was driven and I kind of sort of made it, made it happen.
Speaker A:And I think we need to make sure that all children, you know, have an understanding and sort of raise their awareness and aspirations for what could be out there, you know, what's available.
Speaker A:Don't just kind of sort of accept, you know, the sort of the, the status quo.
Speaker A:So, you know, I, I think it's.
Speaker A:And for me, yes, opportunities came along because I was prepared to just both mock in, go and do things that I perhaps wasn't necessarily thought, well, this doesn't necessarily float my boat, but I made some good connections along the way and that ultimately then played dividend.
Speaker A:And in the, and in the organization where I got my fixed term contract, it was, you know, it was about demonstrating what I could add.
Speaker A:So you've got to be there to be able to demonstrate it in order to get the, get the kind of sort of the offer.
Speaker B:I, I love that phrase that you do about, you know, you just need to muck in, you just need to go on with things and get things done.
Speaker B:And I saw it was an interview with pretty sure it's Barack Obama.
Speaker B:It was, it was Barack Obama and possibly with his wife.
Speaker B:And they were talking about the advice they give to their daughters.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And what, what they say to their daughters is just be the person that gets stuff done so that people, if people will give you more and more responsibility if they trust you and if they believe that you will actually do the thing they've asked you to do, and the only way that they can trust you is for you to deliver on the things that you're being asked of.
Speaker B:So if you are being asked to do the most menial task, do it and do it well.
Speaker B:And it's in doing that that you're going to build up other people's trust in you and their confidence that, yes, we can give you more responsible, more interesting, more things aligned with your aspirations, but you've got to earn that trust first.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, when I started here, they had not had HR before and I sort of set out the plan.
Speaker A:Right, okay, this is what we're going to do, Peeps.
Speaker A:And this is the road and the path, you know, we're kind of sort of on.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Let's say I was sort of received with a degree of sort of skepticism, you know, some very enthusiastic, some not quite sure.
Speaker A:And at the end of that, it was like, well, you know, this is what I said I was going to do.
Speaker A:This is what we've done.
Speaker A:This is how we've moved, you know, this is the evaluation and this is.
Speaker A:This is the result.
Speaker A:And it is that.
Speaker A:Okay, yeah, okay, right, now I've got you now.
Speaker A:You bought into it.
Speaker A:So when I suggest something a bit more out of your comfort zone, bearing in mind that, you know, sort of, it's a very.
Speaker A:It was a very traditional business, you know, and now I'm going to push you a bit in moving you out of your comfort zone.
Speaker A:They went with it and they were brilliant.
Speaker A:And that's probably part of the reason that, you know, I've stayed is that when.
Speaker A:When I've pushed and said that this is, you know, really, this is what we need to be looking to in terms of adding value, they've gone with this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And as part of your role and you've talked about how massively the organization has grown in the time that you've been there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm really curious to know a bit more about how you're developing the confidence of the workforce.
Speaker B:How are you helping the workforce develop?
Speaker A:So in terms of.
Speaker A:So we.
Speaker A:We've built the team that, you know, so as I.
Speaker A:It was me, one other.
Speaker A:And now sort of, we've built the wider team and that includes kind of sort of an L and D function.
Speaker A:But one of the things that we do is we really try and listen.
Speaker A:And we have a number of ways of doing that.
Speaker A:One is that we do, like every other organization, probably an annual survey, and we ask some key questions.
Speaker A:And so we keep some the same so we can see where we're going.
Speaker A:Are we going backwards?
Speaker A:Are we static?
Speaker A:Are we moving forwards?
Speaker A:And then we ask some what I would call topical questions of the moment combined with that.
Speaker A:Because we've got 25 officers, we have a rep in each office, and we also have a mental health rep in each office.
Speaker A:So every other month we meet.
Speaker A:So one month we'll meet with reps and the next month we'll meet with mental health first aiders and those sort of comms and sort of feedback loop is, you know, tell us what's happening because our offices are not all the same.
Speaker A:You know, we've got some that are much bigger, some that are smaller, some that are rural, some that are based in city centres.
Speaker A:You know, what's important to you, what's going on right now, you know, that I can't see from Ashby, you know, what, what is it that's kind of sort of happening, what's important?
Speaker A:And we also give them a budget so they can do various things off their own back to, you know, kind of sort of improve things.
Speaker A:Like it's driven by well being, it's driven by connection.
Speaker A:So how can we connect together as people and also how can we kind of improve kind of well being and that, you know, and so it has to be a continuous feedback loop, you know, because, you know, if we, if we're not listening, if they're sort of saying this is really important to us and we're over here going, okay, well this, we're not either not listening or we're focused also on this.
Speaker A:It's not great because.
Speaker A:And I love the business.
Speaker A:One of the businesses that I really love is Timson.
Speaker A:You know, they ask one question which is around happiness.
Speaker A:They drive it through their people.
Speaker A:And we are very much a people business.
Speaker A:So if our people are happy and delivering, our clients are getting great service.
Speaker A:So we need to make sure that, you know, our people a feel that they have a voice feel that they are seen.
Speaker A:They tell us what's important sort of to us.
Speaker A:Now don't get me wrong, sometimes we have to say that's a really great idea, but we don't have a budget for that at the moment.
Speaker A:But we'll put it into the ideas box or we're probably not quite ready for that suggestion.
Speaker A:So, you know, but again, it's not off the table or that's really good.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But it's going to take us about a year to get to where you need us to kind of get to.
Speaker A:So that is just that sort of listening, understanding what's important combined with what's, you know, what's the world of work, both our sector and outside of our sector, telling us, you know, what's coming over the horizon, what's maybe going to hit us that we sort of don't sort of expect.
Speaker A:And so, you know, that's kind of sort of really important as well.
Speaker A:I think curiosity is a, is a massive skill.
Speaker A:I would anybody, it doesn't matter what profession you're in, what role you're in, you know, be curious not just about your own business, but about other businesses, other sectors.
Speaker A:What's happening across the world?
Speaker B:Yeah, and one thing that is happening across the world, which you have alluded to already, is the pace of change.
Speaker B:It's just, it is relentless and it is going to continue at this relentless pace, if not even faster.
Speaker B:And with, with that in mind, with your people director hat on and you're faced with this pace of change, what, what can you see coming down the pipeline for, for your people in the years to come?
Speaker A:I think that, I mean, there's always, you know, there's a lot of talk at the moment and I'm going to a fair amount of events around sort of AI, you know, what is AI going to do for us?
Speaker A:You know, sort of what can we speed up, what can we automate?
Speaker A:How can we do more with the same or more with less?
Speaker A:You know, how can we kind of sort of increase productivity?
Speaker A:And you know, I think there's questions that every business is kind of asking themselves.
Speaker A:And for me, I think the real, particularly probably in the profession we're in, which is consultancy, you know, sort of property consultancy.
Speaker A:So you're talking to people, you're getting to understand what they need and then you're kind of sort of delivering it sort of to them.
Speaker A:The key for me actually right now, you know, we will utilize we, in fact, we are, you know, we, we will utilize AI and we are, we will automate, we will speed things up, we will be more productive.
Speaker A:The real key for me is, and I hate this term is soft skills, because I don't think they're soft.
Speaker A:I actually think they're really hard because a lot of people can't master them.
Speaker A:The ability to talk to somebody, the ability to understand actually what is it that your client wants, because sometimes your client doesn't know what they want, but they have an idea of what they want and they don't necessarily the ability to grapple that information and put it into.
Speaker A:And you may use, you know, kind of AI or something else to kind of help analyze it, but, you know, data, you know, and sort of driving in the interpretation and the analysis of that sort of data.
Speaker A:But I really do think the ability to connect, to be empathetic, to be understanding, you know, so often, you know, we listen to answer as opposed listen to understand and understand where people are.
Speaker A:And I talk a lot in the business about meeting people where they are as opposed to where we are and, and really being there in those moments that matter, you know, and what matters to somebody else may not necessarily be what matters to you.
Speaker A:And so, and I think that's kind of sort of really important.
Speaker A:So I think that area will be a key area because you can AI well, whatever you can automate, you can speed up, whatever.
Speaker A:The ability to connect with somebody I think is huge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's actually something that I've been talking quite a lot with some of my executive coaching clients recently is about how can they take more of a coaching approach to the situations that they're in?
Speaker B:How can they approach those situations with a sense of curiosity and asking questions and really, as you say, listening to the answers without any preconceptions about what it is that they want the solution to be?
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:And I think, I think that's so important.
Speaker A:You know, so often we miss, you know, we think we're listening and we miss the understanding part because we've already made our minds up, we've already made the decision about what this person wants or needs and because if I, if I do that and I sort that then I'm on to the next thing.
Speaker A:And I'm on to the next thing.
Speaker A:And I'm on to the next thing because I'm really sort of busy.
Speaker A:But actually taking the time to ask those coaching questions and to really understand what somebody kind of wants means that they then become empowered.
Speaker A:And that frees up your time, you know, to actually move on to the other thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:As you are, as we all are.
Speaker B:But I'm curious about your situation, grappling with this immense piece of change.
Speaker B:How are you keeping sane in all of that?
Speaker A:I think if you'd asked me during COVID there would be a lot of bottles in the recycling, then that would have been my answer, interestingly so, over the past.
Speaker A:Oh, since October 26th.
Speaker A: So in: Speaker A:And then we went into Covid and I think I, I always describe it like the 24 hour flight to Australia, you know, when you kind of, you've been in your seat forever and you get up and you feel like it's welded to you.
Speaker A:And that's pretty much kind of sort of how it was.
Speaker A:And I think I ate and drank my sort of way through that experience.
Speaker A:Everybody said it was really sunny, I didn't see any sun, so I, and, and you know, so.
Speaker A:But in October 23, having come back from Australia, I, I knew I needed, I always knew I was going to need my other knee doing and I went back to see My consultant.
Speaker A:And I said, right, okay, it needs doing.
Speaker A:But I think what I'm.
Speaker A:Because work's really busy.
Speaker A:I think I needed doing in January 25th.
Speaker A:And he said, okay, well, you know, let's kind of X ray you came back.
Speaker A:And he sort of said, no, you need it doing now, but you're too fat.
Speaker A:And he was that direct.
Speaker A:So I went, oh, okay.
Speaker A:So I'm guessing I need to lose some weight.
Speaker A:And we agreed that I would lose X amount of weight by February 24th, which I did.
Speaker A:And then I kind of had it, I had it done.
Speaker A:And then I've literally sort of just sort of carried on.
Speaker A:So I think my sanity and I'm bizarre, I cannot believe I'm saying this, but my sanity for me has been getting healthier and going to the gym and going outside.
Speaker A:So when I'm forcing myself out of bed in the morning and I'm thinking I really don't want to do this, I think about sort of the benefit of when I finish because it just lifts me, it lifts my mental state and it lifts, you know, my, my physical state and is helping to keep me kind of my knees good.
Speaker A:And I think that is really important to have some sort of outlet, some sort of focus that is not just the job, you know, because I think it can be so easy to wrap yourself up into the job, the demands, the stress.
Speaker A:And then you look for potentially probably, you know, different outlets.
Speaker A:You know, I, you know, oh my goodness, I could demolish a chocolate bar and you know, lit basically.
Speaker A:So, you know, that's kind of sort of my, that's what my approach has been to, trying to sort of keep sane in a fast paced world.
Speaker A:The other thing I do, and this is purely down to me because I certainly don't expect my team to do this, but I try and get into the office at least four times a week, five if I, if I want to.
Speaker A:But that's because during, again during COVID I just didn't switch off.
Speaker A:There was no boundaries for me.
Speaker A:Whereas when I come into work and when I leave, that's.
Speaker A:That's me done.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:You know, sometimes I'll work on the weekend, but I'll come into work, you know, because it puts me in work mode.
Speaker A:I do my work and then I get up and leave and that's it, I switch off.
Speaker A:Whereas I didn't.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I think that's so important because we hear so much about how working from home is.
Speaker B:It's the answer to all of our problems, isn't it?
Speaker B:Because we're not going to this commute and we can put a wash on at lunchtime and yada, yada, yada.
Speaker B:That doesn't work for some people.
Speaker B:Some people like the structure.
Speaker B:They like physically removing themselves from their own home, having those boundaries in place, that this is where I work, this is where I rest.
Speaker B:Some people need the energy of being in the office.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have a client at the moment who works in Canary Wharf, so in the east side of London, but he lives in Oxford, which is like the west side of London, and he has this truly hideous commute that he chooses to do because he knows that when he gets to the office he's going to feel so much better than he would if he worked from home.
Speaker B:And so it's really about figuring out what is going to be right for you at this point in time in your life where you are still meeting the needs of the business, but also allowing yourself to have the best possible environment to work in.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:So I, you know, I say to my, you know, sort of my team, which is, you know, I'm not, you know, bothered in a way where you work as long as you're delivering, you know, as long as I'm seeing the results, as long as, you know, but we do come in on a regular basis and we do see each other because again, that sort of connectivity.
Speaker A:But for me, I know I am far more productive.
Speaker A:I prefer the energy kind of of others and the interaction of sort of others.
Speaker A:But even when there is nobody on in a weekend, it's that right now I'm in work mode.
Speaker A:Now I can switch off, you know, kind of when I go home because otherwise I just don't.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And having the benefit of experience and really knowing yourself allows you to make the right decisions.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, it does.
Speaker B:And if we think about the benefit of your experience, if you were to sit down and have a cup of tea with 21 year old Maria, what, what would you be telling her other than listen to your mum, because she was right about that secretarial course.
Speaker A:What would I be telling her?
Speaker A:I think I would be sort of telling her, you know, don't worry, it all turns out okay.
Speaker A:And so somebody said to me in my career and it made a, you know, a big impression in me, which was, you know, you're stronger than you think you are.
Speaker A:And I wish I had known that at 21.
Speaker A:I wish I'd known that, you know, that I was kind of stronger than I thought I was, you know, because I think Sometimes, you know, that both insecurity and imposter syndrome kind of hit home and you're then sort of worried and sort of concerned and potentially about what others think about you.
Speaker A:So that's what I think.
Speaker A:I would sort of tell her.
Speaker A:I would sort of say, don't worry, it will all work out in the end.
Speaker A:And, you know, when you have your daughter, make her independent, but not too independent, it's like she moves to the other side of the world.
Speaker A:Yeah, I suppose the other thing I would sort of said, and I.
Speaker A:And I know this is about sort of careers, but I think, you know, the other things that have informed me and made me kind of probably the person I am today was, you know, my dad died very quickly after finding out he had cancer when I was 30.
Speaker A:I had two miscarriages before my daughter and I had three afterwards.
Speaker A:And again from a.
Speaker A:From a work experience, the way you're treated, you know, during those times, in those moments that matter really have informed the way that I try to do my role and be a people director.
Speaker A:Because I think it, it's absolutely, you know, if you, if you've got great people and they're staying with you and they're loyal to you, why would you not look after them in those sort of times?
Speaker A:Why would you not support them?
Speaker A:Why, you know, add extra guilt on to, you know, kind of sort of a parent who is struggling because they're, you know, their child is sick and, you know, and they're.
Speaker A:And, you know, they've been up all night and that kind of sort of thing.
Speaker A:So, you know, and it's all those things, I think, that go into, you know, actually seeing people as humans as opposed to a resource.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maria, if I ever end up in employment again, I want to come and work wherever you are, because it sounds like the.
Speaker B:The kind of environment that would just be a lovely place to be.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, we.
Speaker A:We try really hard and interestingly, one of the things that our new joiners always say to us is how lovely everybody is.
Speaker A:And within our colleague survey, it's all always about how great how sort of people are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we try really hard to keep that even during sort of, you know, big growth.
Speaker A:We've tried to keep that as an essence, you know, that the people are key.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:If anyone listening would like to find out more about you and the work that you do, where's the best place for them to connect with you?
Speaker A:Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:I have, over time, both met people, mentored, given advice that sort of type of thing for what it's worth.
Speaker A:But yes, contact me on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:Love to hear from anybody who wants to get in contact.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Thank you so much Maria.
Speaker B:I have really, really enjoyed the conversation and it's been brilliant to meet you finally.
Speaker A:Definitely it's been great chat.
Speaker A:It's so easy to chat to.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:A huge thank you to Maria for her time, but also for her openness and her honesty.
Speaker B:She has so much great advice to share, but I think the message that I take away from our conversation is opportunity really is everywhere.
Speaker B:Whether you are a 16 year old coming out of school with some not great GCSE results or you're 60 years old approaching the end of your career, if you can keep an open mind, if you can be curious, if you can raise your aspirations about what might be possible for you because you just never know where you might end up.
Speaker B:I've got more brilliant guests lined up over the next few months, so be sure to hit subscribe on your podcast app of choice so that the episodes are delivered to the straight to your device when they become available.
Speaker B:That's all from me for today.
Speaker B:Remember, you can buy my book the Career Confidence Toolkit on Amazon and it's available there in paperback, Kindle and Audible formats.
Speaker B:And if you'd like to keep in contact, be sure to download my free guide Back yourself, your seven step plan to build confidence and achieve your career goals.
Speaker B:And you can get that by going to nicholasimple.com backyourself as well as getting instant access to the guide.
Speaker B:I'll send you my fortnightly newsletter with Career confidence hints and tips.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for listening and I'll talk to you again very soon.
Speaker B:Bye for now.
Speaker A:Sam.
